You know, of the Zelda stages, Hyrule Castle has the least amount of problems with it. The only "bad" thing about it is its otherwise small "cave of life". But it's not a problem like it is in the current Smash games, which makes me see it (hazards off) as a potential CP stage.

Oh, and yes, I've tested for wall infinites; luckily, the right wall will allow for a character's escape from an otherwise devastating infinite.

Hyrule Castle is still about twice the size of the average neutral stage (33 yrs), bigger than the just asked about Lunar Core (28 yrs).

If someone wants to camp or hit&run with a speedster on that stage, there's no way of stopping them. It would be awesone for 64-nostalgia to have that stage legal, but it ain't feasible.

Different topic: With all this talk about making unconventional layout/size stages legal, I wonder how Yoshi's Island (SSF2) never got into the discussion. About the same length as Sky Sanctuary Zone and Saturn Valley. The only strikingly abnormal thing about it is the ferris-wheel platforms, which in turn seems to prevent people from camping the top. as slower characters have the ability to reach them.

Not sure if I want it legal, just bringing up the point.

I see. I didn't realize it was bigger than Lunar Core, or some potential problems of course. Well, onto Yoshi's Island I guess. And you have a point about it; it does have the potential of being a counterpick stage, since it's still relatively massive in size, but it otherwise provides little to no problem for any character.

My new stage list incoming next post of mine.

I think Yoshi's Island is good for doubles potentially, like have that as a CP for solely doubles but otherwise it still feels just far too big to be good tournament wise

I don't think the layout of YI counteracts circle camping enough. I played a semi-competitive match on it in the 9b days and got timed out.

To be fair you cant really judge a stage based on a single match thats over a year ago, now can we?

YI as a doubles stage has been something Ive been trying to push for quite a while now (early 2016 I think), so Im obviously a bit biased if I say that Im all for that idea

Just out of curiosity, whats the general stance on WarioWare? Havent seen much talk about it yet, and Im kinda scared that people are just going to write it off because "0.9b bamned it", even though the stage has changed quite a bit (namely bigger blastzones).

I mean I'm fine with Warioware, as a tiny stage it's less silly than Yoshi's Story is. Both have the same benefits/drawbacks, just a question of preference i think.

I'd be safe to assume WarioWare could be a neutral stage.

starter seems a little bit much considering there's way better neutral stages available

i'd say five is a nice number of starter stages and i think stages that are better suited for a starter are:

battlefield
FD
smashville
pokemon stadium 2
dreamland
yoshi's story
dracula's castle
tower of salvation

not saying the stages above should be all starters but i think compared to warioware they'd definitely suit starter better in comparison. i'd say the best starter list is probably the first four and then one of dreamland/yoshi's story/dracula's castle, with dracula's castle being the sketchiest out of the three

i mean it could be but we have better alternatives

would be down to try 7 starters, but 5 is fine. The problem I have w. yoshi's is that I honestly think it's TOO small in terms of what's available on the stage not to mention the slants could also be an issue- def legal but I think warioware is a better verision of it, especially since we wouldn't have the risk of multiple triplat starters.

IMO on that list, starters could be

BF
FD
SV
PS2
ToS or Dracula's

Like I think Warioware is a better starter than YS will ever be more or less.

I'd like for us to take a moment to reconsider Hueco Mundo's viability as a stage. Now I know you guys will be saying that since it's a walk-off, it'll automatically be banned. However, I'd like to argue that despite it being a walk-off stage, it could potentially be a counterpick, and there are a few reasons as to why I'd argue it could be one:

Unlike the other walk-off stages in the game, or Smash in general, this stage has a walk-off that slopes downward instead of staying at the same elevation of the "main platform". Testing has proven that the balst zone of the walk-off and the normal right side are both the same. This means that the stage is the only walk-off with a lower blast zone at the side. Furthermore, the slope itself can act as an anti-camping method, since every character in the game could simply attack from above, no matter whom, and punish the person camping down on the lowest point of the stage. Not only that, but you will most likely need to run into the opponent to successfully grab them, preventing you from just staying at one spot on the stage entirely.

There's also the fact that due to a bug in the game, rolling cannot help you here like it can in say, Mushroom Kingdom II or III, as you will immediately stop at a certain point when going toward the slope, but not out of it. Lastly, I would like to point out that the slope also acts like a counter to any sort of "chain throw" normally present in other walk-offs, which even further separates it from the normal walk-off. Of course, yes, this is a stage you can just run off and there are still possibilities of being grabbed, but it's going to be much less prominent than say, even Castle Seige's second formation.

I'd like to give some benefit of the doubt to Hueco Mundo. It's not your typical walk-off stage whatsoever, and I'd like to think that there's a possibility that the stage can be seen as a possible CP.
I can already see people still saying something along the lines of "it'll still be banned since it's a walk-off", completely disregarding what I just said.

You can camp on the slope against characters who are easily juggled, lack an air game, or rely on projectiles. How the heck do you approach Pit, with upward arrows and his huge up air? It's like a ledge in that you are below them and hard to hit, but you can up tilt and up smash and run away.

First of all, in response to your statement, no it isn't. It's not as simple as you make it out to be. In Hueco Mundo, where the heck are you going to go? The stage is devoid of any real platform to run away to and circle back to the same area. There's the soft platform that sometimes comes back, but other than that, your opponent isn't going to be played a second time.

Now to answer the Pit question, how else are you going to get to him? By going on the slope itself and punishing the player's poor decision to spam vertical based attacks. That slope speeds everyone up, so it's not entirely impossible to counter some given situations.

And on your first statement, again, this will very likely be a small problem, which would be the reason why I'd consider it a counterpick in the first place, and not a neutral. However, these problems can be countered in due time. People will find ways to beat out a camper on that stage.

i can't believe what i'm reading

is this all one big meme and i've been left out of it?

Hueco Mundo, when tested, easily lends itself to camping. Black Mage can spam Meteor from the top, characters can spam moves from the bottom, people can camp next to the walkoff and only need a single back throw to take a stock. I also think that some chaingrabs are possible on the stage despite what you say.