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The Possibility of Last-Minute Clones 

Thoughts?
Possible, and wouldn't mind if it happened. 57%  57%  [ 30 ]
Possible, but a bad idea. 15%  15%  [ 8 ]
Not possible, but wouldn't mind if it was. 19%  19%  [ 10 ]
Not possible, and clones should stay far away from this game anyway. 9%  9%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 53

The Possibility of Last-Minute Clones 
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[TSON] wrote:
well, clones are only very slightly easier for a hand-drawn game than a full character. we can't just ctrl+r and swap a model out like a 3d game and reuse old anims, we have to edit every frame of every animation. just wanted to throw that out there, won't say anything as far as how we stand because it does still save a little work : )


Clone's Confirmed??

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Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:50 pm
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The sprite thing is why I have a feeling Lucina is a good last-minute possibility. She doesn't look too different from Marth, so her sprites wouldn't take too much editing.

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Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:02 pm
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Characters like this will surely be post full release content, and that would be based on how willing they are to make the game bigger, and if the Project is successful enough to warrant such additions. This is my assumption.

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Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:20 pm
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I'm down for whatever as long as there aren't any Lucina's *cough* waste of space*cough* in the roster

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He doesn't have to be Meta Knight weak...

WelfareWednesday wrote:
Why should it be better? And who's asking for a huge nerf?
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Nobody is asking for a nerf, the SSF2 did it...


Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:24 pm
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Saikyoshi wrote:
Phoenix Wright wrote:
The way I see it, characters can be clones in animations/skin and playstyle. That seems hard to dispute. If two characters share extreme similarities in animations, they are at least semi-clones. If two characters play the same but have different animations and stuff then that is a coincidence, so what if Falco and Dedede use dthrow to chaingrab all of the time? They certainly aren't clones. If two characters share extreme similarities in both categories however, we have what I call a TRUE clone, where the differences between the two characters (if any) are negligible and as a result they end up playing the same.

Fox and Falco from Melee are examples of characters that have similar animations on EVERY attack (and since Fox came first, Falco is a clone of Fox), but due to subtle changes in physics and how the attacks actually work, they end up playing absolutely nothing alike. They end up being semi-clones, which is fine since they aren't REALLY clones (if anything, it's a testament to how different two characters that are extremely similar can be). They split up in Brawl, no longer sharing every animation and playing very differently. I argue then that Falco became a completely different character in Brawl, no longer even a semi-clone. But I digress. An example of true clones is Marth and Lucina. They share the same animations on every attack, and play the same. Their stats are extremely similar, and the subtle differences between the two means that only very specific things have to be done differently, but the game plan is practically the same. Since Marth came first, Lucina is a clone of Marth. Since they share extreme similarities in animations and playstyle, Lucina is a true clone.

If you don't agree with Marth/Lucina, then take a look at Pit and Dark Pit (they even share the same name). Dark Pit is a true clone of Pit.

Anyways, my main point is that true clones are practically the same character. They only serve to pad the roster and to, sadly, advertise that character. If they are practically the same character, and do not benefit the depth of the game, then I say that true clones should NOT be in smash. Any developer is perfectly capable of coming up with a unique moveset for a character, to remove the clone aspect, which is perfectly fine by me.

tl;dr Semi-clones like Fox and Falco from Melee are fine (although de-cloning the characters is generally better imo), and true clones like Marth/Lucina and Pit/D.Pit are not fine at all.

I'm going to have to disagree with you that Lucina doesn't add anything. She is a lot safer at rushdowns than Marth (and less safe at mid-range), and certain combos that would not be worth it on him due to some parts not landing on the tipper cause enough damage to consider with her.

I agree that Dark Pit was handled abysmally, though. They should have at least had slightly different physics. It could have easily been a Fox/Falco or Mario/Doc situation that they failed to do.


Fun fact.
Dark Pit was only added so he could have a different final smash.

Also, Phoenix Wright.
If that's your opinion on Falco in Brawl, what's your opinion on Wolf, who I'd argue is more different than Falco?

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Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:20 am
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Wolf is ABSOLUTELY a different character than either of the other space animals. His up-b functions differently albeit following the same trajectory. Side-b looks similar as well, but it goes on a different angle and is a kill move. Laser is bad in neutral, but the only similarity with his fellow spacies is the fact that he HAS a laser. Shine is the same as Fox, nothing else really to say about it other than the new animation. And then ALL of his neutrals are different.

He's also da coolest space animal so far.

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Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:02 pm
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Phoenix Wright wrote:
Wolf is ABSOLUTELY a different character than either of the other space animals. His up-b functions differently albeit following the same trajectory. Side-b looks similar as well, but it goes on a different angle and is a kill move. Laser is bad in neutral, but the only similarity with his fellow spacies is the fact that he HAS a laser. Shine is the same as Fox, nothing else really to say about it other than the new animation. And then ALL of his neutrals are different.

He's also da coolest space animal so far.

He's a completely different character, so different it does not match Wolf himself (see Up-Smash to know what I'm talking about)
He's not a clone, granted, but I still think he was a pretty unneeded adittion.
If he is getting in, at least give him a different Final Smash.

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Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:08 pm
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Shiver-Star wrote:
Phoenix Wright wrote:
Wolf is ABSOLUTELY a different character than either of the other space animals. His up-b functions differently albeit following the same trajectory. Side-b looks similar as well, but it goes on a different angle and is a kill move. Laser is bad in neutral, but the only similarity with his fellow spacies is the fact that he HAS a laser. Shine is the same as Fox, nothing else really to say about it other than the new animation. And then ALL of his neutrals are different.

He's also da coolest space animal so far.

He's a completely different character, so different it does not match Wolf himself (see Up-Smash to know what I'm talking about)
He's not a clone, granted, but I still think he was a pretty unneeded adittion.
If he is getting in, at least give him a different Final Smash.


I'd dispute the unneeded addition claim. Sakurai had been planning to add him since Smash Bros Melee (he dropped him in favour of Falco for greater visual contrast between the fox clones).

I personally feel he should get in over Falco for two reasons:
1) As Phoenix Wright so WRIGHTly put, Wolf is completely different to Fox, save for Shine an Landmaster.
2) I really wanna see the salt in the community if he's revealed, considering how salty people got over Mr Game and Watch.

If Falco had Wolf's moveset, I'd happily have that as well.

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Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:23 pm
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DarkSwiftN wrote:
Shiver-Star wrote:
Phoenix Wright wrote:
Wolf is ABSOLUTELY a different character than either of the other space animals. His up-b functions differently albeit following the same trajectory. Side-b looks similar as well, but it goes on a different angle and is a kill move. Laser is bad in neutral, but the only similarity with his fellow spacies is the fact that he HAS a laser. Shine is the same as Fox, nothing else really to say about it other than the new animation. And then ALL of his neutrals are different.

He's also da coolest space animal so far.

He's a completely different character, so different it does not match Wolf himself (see Up-Smash to know what I'm talking about)
He's not a clone, granted, but I still think he was a pretty unneeded adittion.
If he is getting in, at least give him a different Final Smash.


I'd dispute the unneeded addition claim. Sakurai had been planning to add him since Smash Bros Melee (he dropped him in favour of Falco for greater visual contrast between the fox clones).

I personally feel he should get in over Falco for two reasons:
1) As Phoenix Wright so WRIGHTly put, Wolf is completely different to Fox, save for Shine an Landmaster.
2) I really wanna see the salt in the community if he's revealed, considering how salty people got over Mr Game and Watch.

If Falco had Wolf's moveset, I'd happily have that as well.

Source? I'm pretty sure Lucas was the semi-clone he wanted to add in Melee but had to wait until Brawl.

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Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:30 pm
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Wolf's playstyle in Brawl is mostly centered around landing bair and juggling with uair lol. If he got in, I would hope they take notes from PM instead. If he and Falco were in the same game tho it might seem weird wince they have very similar combo games then.

And there is nothing that says Wolf was supposed to be in Melee, he briefly appears him the opening cutscene and thats it. Pit was supposed to be in 64 but was replaced by Puff. As for his lack of appearance in Melee, I think they just didn't have time.

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Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:56 pm
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... count=7506

He also mentions that Wario was dropped in favour of Dr. Mario as the Mario clone because he felt Wario "deserved better"

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Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:05 pm
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DarkSwiftN wrote:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37915502&postcount=7506

He also mentions that Wario was dropped in favour of Dr. Mario as the Mario clone because he felt Wario "deserved better"

Well if it's Famitsu then I guess it's Legit. Didn't know any of this! :D

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Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:16 pm
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I don't think last-minute clones like Dark Pit and Lucina are even a close to a possibility. The devs aren't rushing or squeezing in time for a set release date for extra additions unlike the official Smash Bros games. Didn't the debs say that in the final roster that they will avoid adding (pure) clones into the game?

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Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:22 pm
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Phoenix Wright wrote:
DarkSwiftN wrote:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37915502&postcount=7506

He also mentions that Wario was dropped in favour of Dr. Mario as the Mario clone because he felt Wario "deserved better"

Well if it's Famitsu then I guess it's Legit. Didn't know any of this! :D

It's interesting to see these, especially concepts for Pkmn trainer.

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Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:42 pm

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I feel like clones are highly unlikely as it has been stated multiple times that there is no release date announced so they don't have rush as much Nintendo [since they announce dates] to throw characters together quickly and slap them in the game. The characters so far are all highly unique and play differently from one another so it would take away a little from the roster's creativity to slap in stuff like Dark Pit and Lucina. Also they always change characters so they're not just a general character or a clone. Ichigo, Llyod, Sora, and Naruto are prime examples of them changing a character to make it's own unique style.

As for the whole clones are terrible argument; I personally think that as long a character has a different move set with some concepts taken from another character [ex. Falco and Wolf] then it's fine. When a character has the same exact move set, animations, and playing style except for one physic to the character changed [ex. Lucina] then I would rather not have them as character just make them a costume change.


Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:18 pm
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