^

MK isn't top tier/top 10 anymore? well damn, Or is this just because no one has been representing him in tourneys lately, cause if so, DK about to pass him too LOL.

It's because he has stiff competition. A lot of those spots can be interchangeable depending on who you ask and how the meta shapes out. Top 5 is really spot-on though, Strife. And thanks for not making BBM bottom 10.

Like, all of the characters in the Top tier have a lot of rep going for them. Let's see:
- Fox has Gax, Flavien, Stef, Vash, and a bunch of others
- Goku has AlphaHatsuseno, who's still a pretty high ranking player
- Tails has Chaos0 and Yix
- Sheik has NoS, ZaiR, andres and Incinerate.
- Falco has Stef and Mirwaiss, and I believe that Gax has them as secondaries.
- Samus had RiVer, and still has Strat2G.
- Lloyd still has Mew2ube and is still amazing after the ban.

Counting the high tier:
- MM has HardKnockDays, but Idk his tournament status
- Ichigo has Xenn and Drarky sometimes.
- Isaac had RiVer, nuff said.
- Pit has M7
- Marth had Oreo and KingPawn
- DK has Prolific
- Link has Marvin and AlohaHatsuseno usiig him as counterpicks

So, despite this, we have literally everyone above and below Meta Knight getting some decent tournament rep and Meta Knight facing competition from so many other good swordsmen, he's going to inevitably drop off because nobody is replying him anymore.

HardKnockDays doesn't enter tournaments AT ALL. But he is amazing with mega man. Technically i'm the only mega man player that enters tournaments, but I mostly dropped him with Pac-Man anyways since I never placed super high with Mega Man. Also Ichigo has MrTheLODE, MK technically has Mew2ube going to pocket him in lloyd banned tournaments. Sandbag also has Mew2ube, Ness has FearZero, G&W has TyranitarLord (and Vash ), Kirby has Tlord as well, along with luffy having Sorabotics and Tlord. Pac-Man has Kyoz (and me, lol jk), Wario had RiVer and has Invalid, Sora I guess has CelestialDrago, Isaac also has Bitsu, Pikachu has alpha, jigglypuff had Chaunch, and the list goes on lol.

Placements I currently Disagree with:

MK: I would say this is more of an obscurity issue than it is MK not being that good. MK has great disjoints, great mobility, many kill setups, excellent frame data, one of the best recoveries in the game in terms of the mix of recovery and safety. It gets even better with the fact that MK has an overpowered chaingrab off of back-throw that rivals even Goku as it can guaranteed to rack up DK from 0 to be around 150ish, again, it is GUARANTEED andworks on most of the cast especially most of the high/top tiers (Probably wouldn't work on kirby or jigglypuff but generally on a lot of characters). MK is at least top 10 and I'd say he is top 5 despite some result issues.

Bowser: Bowser should probably be where DK is at least. While sure DK is bigger, faster, and stronger too I MEAN just has better mobility, mobility is generally used to cover space which is something Bowser can do excellently. Bowser's significantly better OoS option allows for a more rewarding defensive play. Bowser's better survivability gives him more chances to get the grab to murder his opponents, not to mention that his grab game is about on par with DK but he has more kill setups compared to DK in general thats not back throw. Bowser also is a little more consistent with stage choices in general which can make Bowser a more consistent character, and lets not forget the fact that Bowser has the Bowsercide ability which (While not super reliable) can still clutch out stocks and can even cost the game for the opponent. Bowser also has better edge guarding ability and just more reward with stuff like f-air killing at around 80, etc., Bowser also has a little better hitbox placement on his recovery which makes him just harder to meteor preventing early stocks from Bowser compared to someone like DK as well. Like DK has his own advantages too, but both DK and Bowser have simiilar objectives and I believe that because of their different strengths, they should be tied since they have similar efficiency for their job.

I still disagree with Bandana Dee being THAT low but i'll create another argument in the future

Samus: Samus is a bit high, sure her strengths are brokenly good like F-Air and Charge Shot. But Samus has to rely on it SO much just to win, this can create issues against reflectors and more people learning the matchup to properly space out and punish F-air. Samus also dies early in the top and has a pretty below average neutral and a not very good defensive game outside of f-air due to her linear out of shield options. Like shes still great, but not top tier.

G&W: G&W is pretty underrated tbh. G&W has one of the best tech chase abilities in the game which could rival even Fox, G&W has fantastic disjoints and range, G&W possesses a bustedly good recovery, of course 9 which can be a game changer in a match with the right amount of luck despite its inconsistencies (At least theres setups for it), G&W also has a ridiculously good edge guarding ability and can catch landings with ease thanks to N-Air. G&W actually does really well against a lot of top/high tiers such as marth, mega-man, DK, Bowser, Samus, etc. And G&W even goes 50-50 against fox and falco.

Outside of that, most placements are somewhat reasonable.

Point is, Mega Man at least has transcendence and a stupid-ass neutral going for him, and Meta Knight is just facing stiff competition from literally everybody.

is this transendent enough for you?

Just an idea for the meta at the moment, characters could be moved like 1 or 2 spots higher/lower but i couldn't really care to much about that stuff

Bowser should be in the same spot as DK or maybe a spot or 2 lower, not THAT low. Both heavies have similar objectives in general and have pros over another alike. Bowser has a lot better OoS option which allows for him to play defensively much safer in general giving Bowser some general convenience for playing patient. Bowser also has a great command grab + Bowsercide, a much more prominently deadly edge guarding game along with having a projectile. Despite his projectile not being great, Its still a way to deal with characters from far range and projectiles in general have pretty broken priority. Bowser also has better survivability which gives him more opportunities to win in neutral along with having a better hitbox placement on his recovery making getting meteored/spiked harder to execute on bowser than DK. DK however has more mobility, however mobility is needed to cover needed space in a quick amount of time, but the excessive range on both characters do make mobility a little less prominent in general, but its a convenient thing to have either way. And DK has a consistent kill throw and some more results due to DK being a more popular pick. Bowser is generally more consistent in terms of matchups and stage choices as he is less dependent on stages, however DK can be more successful on certain stages. So honestly I'd have them tied.

The idea of having them tied is rather silly due to the fact that while they are similar in terms of certain attributes (heavyweight, grab based combo game), and they do have strengths over one another in some areas, one just has to end up being better than the other and i believe that at the moment, DK is a much bigger threat in the meta than Bowser is.

Bowser's OoS is better but DK's isn't bad in the slightest. While Koopa Klaw is great as a command grab as well as its long range hitbox, it is rather slow and can be intercepted with any attack, making it a very risky option. Bowser's Fireball isnt that great, again, mainly due to it being outsped by most things in the game, an example is zelda being able to up b bowser out of his fireball endlag from afar or characters simply avoiding the rather linear projectile (that isn't even that strong).

Bowser has good edgeguarding but I think you're underrating DK's edgeguarding, particularly with tools such as bair and dtilt being able to force lots of pressure against a recovering opponent. Bowser's survivability is better than DK's, but DK has speed to spare as well as numerous tools to be able to win neutral, while Bowser has a harder time getting back to neutral comparitively due to his floatiness, poor airspeed and fairly linear tools. DK by no means has an easy time landing, but Bowser is just worse at it.

Bowser's Up B in the air has a little more coverage than DK's but doesn't mean too much regarding his poor airspeed, along with DK having slightly more options with it and it going farther than Bowser's making DK's recovery a tad better. another thing is that DK is scary to get grabbed by at any percent thanks to a mix of kill confirms and a great kill throw, while with Bowser, shielding past his uthrow uair percents is a fairly safe option, with only his rather slow command grab being able to beat it out, which hurts because Bowser's approach is rather linear.

In terms of Matchups, Bowser just has an overall worse time than DK due to the fact that both his neutral and his disadvantage states are just outright worse than DK's. As the meta progresses, they may be closer together but as of right now DK is superior in terms of MUs, playerbase, and in results, which is why he's significantly higher.

so let's talk about 1.0.3
Yoshi is most likely not the worst anymore due to his side b being able to be cancelled by a jump and having a new dash grab. I think Yoshi is probably better than bottom 3 at least, tho he might be much better.

Kirby is now the worst. Despite Hammer having better range and bair finally killing, HE'S STILL EVEN WORSE!. Up throw is weaker and his down throw is RUINED no longer comboing properly thanks to the angle changed. This means Down Throw to Hammer is COMPLETELY avoidable by DIing away. Kirby no longer his kill confirm unless they dont know how to DI, and some of his big problems arent fixed such as Dair being weak as hell and fair still being laggy as hell.

Bandana dee i havent gotten that much experience playing as yet in 1.0.3 but with the bair lasting longer (as a sourspot) and having better kill power, he may be lower mid or even a solid mid tier now.

Sandbag is definitely not good now, not gonna lie
He hasn't changed a smidge but on the account of everyone else getting buffs but him, oops
Pray for a hopefully-soon-but-take-your-time-devs-i-don't-want-a-broken-game-again Priority Patch and maybe buffs

~Local Sandbag Enthusiast

BDee and Bomberman have massively improved. Luffy is probably the worst character in the game right now, maybe Sandbag. Kirby mains, stop whining.

although fox got a tight nerf hes still at least top 10.

Bdee has Upthrow combos now and fair sucks less. D-tilt affects the opponent now.

YEET