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MaskofTruth
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:18 am Posts: 609 Location: Lagcity, or lagless city if my phone is working Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: MaskofTruth
Currently Playing: SSF2
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Stop playing vs people with Light mode on.
_________________ Beta is finally coming ;-; (≧ω≦) I take it back, beta is a 1.0.2 is trash
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Tue May 31, 2016 11:20 am |
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GBomber465
Site Moderator
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:05 pm Posts: 209 Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: GBomber465
Currently Playing: SSF2, Project M and Phoenix Wright
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And it's not like something like that isn't punishable as heck.
_________________-----------------------------------------------    ----------------------------------------------- Check out my sprite gallery: http://forums.mcleodgaming.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=41157
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Tue May 31, 2016 11:22 am |
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Gemini
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:19 pm Posts: 1422 Location: Canada Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: ShadowAssasin2600
Skype: chaoticshadow50
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LOOOL that read Top 10 Reads
_________________Mains  and 
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Tue May 31, 2016 7:10 pm |
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TeneSicarius
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:25 pm Posts: 20 Country:
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I'm going to miss his old moveset. I'm glad he's finally able to use his up special to recover, but losing proto shield and down air removes a lot of the creativity of recovering. Now it'll just be a 50-50 of if he'll attack or not. I only ever used down air to recover, so it might be better to have an actual attack their instead, but there's not going to be a way to safely cancel up special to grab the ledge.
The loss of proto shield and dash attack also eliminates my favorite combo; midair chain "grab," of chaining the two together. There was a lot of mindgames and platform cancelling required, so it could be avoided with proper care, but I was able to consistently rack up 30% damage at low percents, even on light and floaty characters. I'm just hoping top spin isn't anywhere near as bad as Smash 4's version, else there's be no combos from it. Wiki says the end lag is small, but I'm still skeptical.
Losing super arm makes edgeguarding much more difficult, especially with the slow recovery, and makes it difficult to continue a combo with an opponent above you. The second one probably won't be a problem unless jewel satellite goes at the same angle as his current nair.
Wheel cutter and black hole bomb weren't as big. With bhb we lose sticky bomb confirm and ... a projectile that can hit Chibi with his toothbrush? It wasn't useful outside of a hard read, but Chibi might be high tier now so that could've made megaman a counter. I was hoping wheel cutter would be replaced with metal blade; it was a good combo starter and reliable on stages with low platforms like warioland, but other than that it was just a lower angled super arm that couldn't edgeguard.
The super armor on beat is going to be great for combo breaking, but it doesn't solve Megaman's biggest weakness: chain grabs. With proto shield gone as well, it is going to be significantly more difficult to escape.
I don't see how the new up tilt will be any better; the old one already killed, didn't have as much end lag, and the sweepspot was right above his head, so it comboed well. Plus his old down tilt was amazing; if it is the exact same as his old dash attack, it will be sad to no longer be able to do it out of a run without the +6 frames to crouch.
Overall, I'm worried these changes will nerf Megaman; he might gain more players from being easier to play, but he's already a mid tier and doesn't need any more nerfs.
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Tue May 31, 2016 8:13 pm |
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0_ZeroSuitUser_0
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:29 pm Posts: 522 Country:
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A. doesn't he still have the same down air? B. I think you're underestimating his new up-special. The super armor is actually super useful because I don't think there are to many multi-hitting moves in the game, and it's ability to extend combos could be very interesting (ex: up-special into up-air... Which was actually shown in one of the gifs, and could prove to be super dirty in the long run). C. I actually don't mind the loss of proto-shield. Mega Man seems to be a character who centers around a defensive play style. I think proto-shield made him a bit to defensive. D. I don't want to be that guy, but whenever someone says that they're sad about the loss of super arm... It kind of makes me cringe. I personally thought the move was poorly balanced. A good deal of prioriy, decent range, travels at angle to where it's kind of hard to dodge, large hit box, decent damage, good knock back, and it was fairly quick. Extremely glad the move is gone E. Mega Man's old up-tilt was also poorly balanced (IMO). You actually just listed a number of problems with it. It was fast, had little end lag, and could kill at extremely early percents. I'd even go as far as to say that it was spammable in some cases (plus I'm pretty sure you could combo into it with a lot of MM's move, and do so pretty easily). The new one is way more balanced.
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Tue May 31, 2016 9:54 pm |
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TeneSicarius
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:25 pm Posts: 20 Country:
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The new down air is the smash 4 counterpart; basically they moved forward smash to down air, increased the damage, but removed the bounce the old one had
Does super armor get you out of chain grabs? I always thought grabs beat super armor, and while this may get him out of aerial combos, chain grabs have always been megaman's glaring weakness because of high weight and fall speed. Aside from that, as far as I'm aware, it isn't Ryu super armor that breaks in one hit; it only cancels when you perform a move. It might break to a falcon punch or a charged smash, but it should force the opponent to wait out the armor. Unless they cannot grab you out of it, an opponent can just wait at the ledge and keep throwing you off until you have to grab the ledge. He may have a better recovery in general, but he still lost recovery options
The only defensive part of proto shield was the reflector; it was the decent projectiles that made him defensive. I mostly stuck to using it for combos, since it was extremely quick, and the small hitbox made it risky. It was pretty balanced, unlike the other moves which I will agree with you on.
Super arm was way too good; if it was kept, it needed some nerfs. You didn't get hit back if it was perfect shielded, and was easy to spam. Up tilt was also an amazing move. However, neither of these brought him into even high tier. The only reason he was mid tier was because these moves were so good. I am glad to see some of his other moves properly tuned to be balanced.
My main problem with super arm though was that it made the power pellets completely useless; they got way too nerfed, and I do hope they have hitstun again. If not, I at least want to dash dance with a charge, and charge while riding beat. That would fix most of the problems I have with the move.
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Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:24 pm |
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MaskofTruth
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:18 am Posts: 609 Location: Lagcity, or lagless city if my phone is working Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: MaskofTruth
Currently Playing: SSF2
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Yoshi doesn't even have superArmor on his DJ
_________________ Beta is finally coming ;-; (≧ω≦) I take it back, beta is a 1.0.2 is trash
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Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:32 pm |
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TeneSicarius
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:25 pm Posts: 20 Country:
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Oh right, that's heavy armor. If it is true super armor and cannot be broken, then would be super useful for combos. I'm not sure if ssf2's version of Yoshi is different than smash's, but that one's knockback based instead of breaking after taking a certain percent of damage. It'll be interesting to see if it is true super armor or just really good heavy armor.
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Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:02 pm |
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TeneSicarius
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:25 pm Posts: 20 Country:
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I know they can't just add in back all the projectiles since they've already announced the new moveset, but I am still hopeful that they take a similar route that Project M took with Mario by having the costumes switch up the moves. It forces a choice before the match, new players aren't overwhelmed, there is no lag if you want to use different specials, and you can switch costume to meet a certain matchup. If my math is not mistaken, with 6 projectiles (5 weapon change + water wave on neutral, side, and down special) there's a potential 20 combinations, and it would be up to the dev team to chose and balance them.
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Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:49 pm |
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Nonya
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:33 pm Posts: 1744 Location: the beach Country:
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: bye bye MG
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Project M Dr. Mario is functionally the same, to the point where Doc can be substituted for Mario in a replay with no effects.
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Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:18 pm |
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TeneSicarius
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:25 pm Posts: 20 Country:
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In recent versions of PM yes, that is correct, but before Doc's forward smash was lightning, making it safer on shield (basically a direct buff). Now it has just as useless an effect as fire. I'm just spit balling some ideas here because I don't want to see moves removed from the game. Just looked what happened when Sora lost Firaga; I'm just worried about nerfing a character already on the bottom half of the tier list. It might just be SSB4 Samus PTSD, and he'll turn out to be a decent character.
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Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:49 pm |
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MaskofTruth
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:18 am Posts: 609 Location: Lagcity, or lagless city if my phone is working Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: MaskofTruth
Currently Playing: SSF2
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actually, there would be fewer because Buster shot(the charging one) is default while downB is water wave. Meaning there would be only 4 costumes needed (assuming water wave is the only move being switched outand lets face it, Mega Buster is not getting the boot.)
4 cosumes needed because Crash bomb and Buster shot are default weapons of sideb, and NeutralB, respectively. Mega Buster(MB) and Crash Bomb(CB) alt costumes required; MB, CB:Water Wave MB, CB:BlackHole Bomb MB, CB:Brick MB, CB:Wheel Cutter
Its a cool idea, but not only would it mean more programming for MM, but a complete Wild Card of a character
_________________ Beta is finally coming ;-; (≧ω≦) I take it back, beta is a 1.0.2 is trash
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Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:55 pm |
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goml
BR Member
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:22 pm Posts: 1448
Gender: Female
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Not gonna lie, I'm pretty sad to see his old moveset abandoned. Maybe it's healthier for the game in practice, but it feels like a bit much
I dont know, it might grow on me.
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Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:22 pm |
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TeneSicarius
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:25 pm Posts: 20 Country:
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My first thought was changing all three (side neutral down) since they were all in the similar category of being in weapon change (down would probably have been put in weapon change). However, just switch down would be less chaotic, and would allow for 2 set of costumes for each special. It wouldn't be more programming since its already designed, but it would mean more visual updates on the old moves considering how crisp the new graphics are. I don't think it would make him complete wild card since only one move is changed, and each one has different utility. Combos kill confirm for black hole bomb, spacing projectile for super arm, recovery attack for wheel cutter, and (assumedly) high damage combos for water wave. None of these would completely change his playstyle (aside from the neutral game with super arm), but force a choice between high damage (ww), safety (sa, wc), and kill confirm (bhb). I'd like to see water wave in action a bit more, since the megaman demo never showed it hitting someone on land.
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Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:28 pm |
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Geno
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:32 am Posts: 11709 Country:
Gender: Anime Girl
Currently Playing: Undertale
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Having your costume choice effect his moveset sounds pretty ghastly. All we ask for as a team is your open mind. We carefully deliberated when it came to his moveset. We wouldn't present something that didn't feel like a direct upgrade or natural evolution of the character. When confronting Mega Man from a design perspective, we went into it thinking how we could improve his base design, taking out the extremely janky parts of his moveset while also building upon what made him fun in the first place. I think you'll find that his character is a lot more fun and fulfilling when you try him in Beta.
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Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:32 pm |
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