Anyone wanna play PM later?

I would, but I need to buy a f*** SD card first.

I'm down to play Brawl with the rest of you folks, however.

just need to find my code...

My friend code is in the console id topic.

That's called character loyalty, and it happens in every fighting game. Many great players in any game will stick to just one charcater, no matter how bad the matchup is. Just remember one thing, at the highest level of play, its the players and not the matchup that determines who wins.

I also want to give my piece for banning characters. A character should only be banned if they cannot lose to viable characters in the roster if they two players are of relatively equal skill. For example, In JoJo's Bizzare Adventure, Petshop has been banned from almost every tournament for that game because all he has to do in some matchups is just runaway and roll, and the opponent can't do anything to stop it. Khan is one of these characters, he literally can't do anything to Petshop. It isn't just Khan, its a lot of characters that can't do anything to him, even the characters that have some options against him lose badly.

That is an example of a broken character that ruins the balance of a game. Smash (specifically Melee) has never had a character like that, Its just the characters that have no options against Fox or Falco, also have no options against many other characters. Lets say you banned everyone in top-tier because Kirby can't realistically beat them; he wouldn't be able to realistically beat anyone in mid-tier either, that's why he isn't viable. The reason why you don't see more than 8 or so characters in Melee is because most of the other characters suck, not because anyone is broken.

Your name is not there.

My friend code is 4211-5885-5103. I have never done this before so I don't know what to expect.

For those who couldn't access superkid's link.
http://clashtournaments.com/project-m-3-02-preliminary-tier-list/

That tier list is pretty inaccurate imo
Lucas is easily top of the high-tier. And Olimar is definitely not bottom-tier. Also Marth shouldn't be that high.
Tier lists are opinion anyway. The meta will change next update too so

Keep in mind that the tier list is based on the experience of CT members, which is a small fraction of the community (9 people). If there were more people involved, then it would be more accurate.

That being said, I agree with some placements, but not with everything.

EDIT: Hungry Box posted his own tier list on Facebook

Which do you feel is more accurate, Hbox's CT's?

From me playing Luigi; I feel that he should be a little higher.

I hardly see any Ivysaurs when I'm watching VGBC videos so I can't comment on it's tier position. Most Fox/Falco matches I watch doesn't end with them winning which makes me doubt their tier positions. I don't know who's tier list is more accurate due to me not being able to see some characters who hardly get picked at all.

Well, thanks for that input, Zapperrix. At first I thought you were referencing static character bans like Meta Knight, but I see where that could come from. Especially since there's features in games like MvC2's Sentinel or LoL's mid-S3 Kassadin that skilled players can just use and either force the opponent's hand or just have them copy them in hopes of evening the odds.

As for character loyalty, I try my best to stick to my favorites in Melee and Brawl (Pichu and Ivysaur respectively), but I've often found that someone who is my equal in skill will find no problem in winning because the two characters are inherently bad in their own respects. It's enjoyable, yes, but it's hard to see my true skill at the game if I play a character who is liable to die at the first Smash attack around 30%, or a character that has a mechanic meant to force you out of playing them and with a weakness to fire moves, which a lot of heavy hits are. Character loyalty just screws me. Maybe that's my own problem, but it's just to say some characters don't make the competitive cut.
_{Unless it's Ivysaur in PM. She's spectacular in PM.}

I mean, yeah, no one is unbeatable or broken in Melee, but it's not a crime to question why bans weren't a thing. I was just curious because the tournaments I do see are dominated by a small percentage of the cast and if there was anything outside of skill that would let other characters see screen time. Which there isn't at the moment.

Hm... This PM tier list confuses me, but that's probably all the characters I play on the regular (Ivysaur, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Lucas, Samus, Luigi, Wolf and Sonic) were seriously buffed since their most recent appearances. I disagree with a lot of these placements, too; like why is Toon Link so low?

3181-3468-4664

All though I don't believe in tier lists w/o MU charts CT tier list is surprisingly accurate IMO ...the only thing I'd completely argue against is pits high placement, Armada has everyone f*** up when it comes to pit.

Oh yeah and banning characters (that aren't broken) is pretty dumb as much as I dislike fox dittos or fox v falco MU banning a fox from a fox main is terrible.

I thought about that when I first started watching competitive Melee simply because I got sick of all these Fox players. Most of Melee matches I watched were mainly of Foxes and I was like there are some many Foxes while other characters are hardly played. I see only a few Falcos, Falcons, Peachs, Sheiks, Docs, Ice climbers and Luigis. I hardly see any Ganondorfs, Piakchus and Samuses. I kinda got over it because watching Melee Fox helps me improve when playing SSF2 Fox, but after a while it gets tiring. I bet some people feel this way when they watch Brawl and see all of these Meta Knights. There is hardly any smash64 tournaments and when there is any; I don't see much Pikachues even though he is the best character in the game.

That's because Smash 64 isn't taken as seriously. When you have Isai, (who is arguably) the best player in the world sandbag as Jigglypuff or Link at an international tournament, then you know that the game isn't taken all that seriously. If people were trying to win all the time, then you'd see Pikachu, Fox, and Kirby (with a little bit of Falcon) a lot more.

Yet he still manged to take second place in 2012 with Link and first place this year with Jiggs. It should be taken seriously since its the game that started it all and at the same time some people consider it a better competitive game then Brawl.

he's able to do that because no one takes competing in the game very seriously, whether you think they should or not