Background story for those interested: I kept talking about this idea to other players and came to the conclusion that there's no real bad that can come out of it. It might help some players and if you do have any questions, then here's a place to put it without having to feel reluctant about it. You're welcome

Hey guys it's yaboi Suli Hyuga. I've been playing SSF2 since 0.6 and have been posting on the forums since 2013. I'm seen as an OG Lloyd because I discovered quite a lot of tech that has evolved Lloyd's meta to what it is today. Now, I'm no tournament winner or off-the-dome analyst that can give you full details on the Sheik Sora matchup on Tower of Salvation without having to think about it. But I do believe I have the experience and all round game knowledge to help people out who may have any questions. On top of this, I'm pretty bored right now and I see this as a healthy way to discuss things SSF2 related (hell, you can even drop one or two off topic questions along with your relevant ones if you want to, no biggie).

You can ask me ANYTHING, such as:
- I suck at this MU, can you help me?
- How do I get good with Lloyd/Sheik?
- I haven't been performing well recently, any advice?
- I have a replay of a match I lost, can you analyse it and give me help?
- Racks or Backs?

This AMA will be on for as long as the thread stays alive (you can revive it aswell if you want, or just PM me, the choice is yours).
Have fun guys!

How do I abuse Lloyd's jank

Also whats the best way to develop a better neutral

Lloyd has a TON of tools to abuse. Tiger Blade cancels are a great way to move around the field whilst getting a few hits in at the same time. Short hop fairs are secretly one of the best spacing tools you could use. Down B > Sheild > OoS Up B cuts out those last few Down B end frames. Cutting those frames is actually REALLY useful in most situations. Side Smashes are also secret OP. They're hitbox lingers for a few frames during the animation's fade. It's a pretty great way to edgegaurd when charged up.
In general, your startup/end frames are pretty small and your hitboxes are pretty large. Lloyd has honestly one of the best neutrals in the game. Hell, if you practiced, you could win purely off of neutral b spams, nair juggles and dash > side b's. Lloyd has jank for days, you could be abusing it without even knowing it!



This is a really good question.
If you already have background knowledge on your character, developing a better neutral shouldn't be a problem.

Hit training mode to start off with (Final Destination is where I would do this). Try out each move without hitting your dummy. You really wanna analyse their startup and end times along with their hitboxes (that's where the dummy comes in at this stage) and damage. Then think about your playstyle. What moves suit you? What moves are in the meta? Are there any easy tech and jank you can use when playing?
You should also think about what moves are great for defense. In scenarios where your opponent decides to engage, these moves can help you turn the game to your favour without taking damage.

After you got your moves down, think about movement. How good is your dashdancing? How good is your ledge stalling? Can you move between platforms with ease? You should always be moving so taking a few minutes to even practice these could be useful. The neutral game incorporates a ton of mind games and constantly moving around makes it a lot harder for your opponent to make a reaction/prediction. If you want a player to take example from, Jammy has been known for making great decisions in terms of his movement and positioning.

Speaking of positioning, this is where that comes in! This time, you'll need to play against an active CPU or Online opponent. You can't really practice this on an idle dummy. Apply everything you've practiced up to this point and during your matches, think about where your character is. Let's use Lloyd as an example for this. To put it bluntly, he doesn't do well on platform oriented stages. So let's assume you are Lloyd and your opponent picked BF and picked Sheik. Sheik does pretty well on stages like these and can use the to her advantage with her aerials and needles. During this match, you can't risk Sheik being below you. Why? Think about the following:
- Lloyd has no moves to defend him directly downwards. You have to rely on escaping and sheilds to keep you safe.
- Being above Sheik makes you an easy target for a free fair, bair, nair, u air and up b.

Now, looking at that, Sheik is at a huge advantage in this scenario. Those are alot of options to use on you. If you were in a situation like this, and Sheik got a stock out of it, or atleast a few hits, that's because you were in a bad position. You have to always keep these things in mind during a match because it really can change the outcome.

Practice these three things and your neutral will improve vastly. Also, analyse your replays, you might pick up on any mistakes or bad habits you never saw before.

tl;dr - Learning to use the right moves at the right time, along with good movement and positioning is what will give you a better neutral game.

Is Lloyd broken?

Only the most skilled players invest time into such a complex character. The amount of time and effort required to fully master such an on-stage beast is truly grueling. One should play Lloyd with caution, keep a band aid kit on you at all times incase you cut yourself from the edginess. Considering his MUs, he truly is a bot tier character that only the best can pick up and play.

Serious answer:
Amazing hitboxes, amazing MUs, amazing tools, amazing frames
His only weakness is his recovery and his weight kinda hinders him vs chars with strong knock back like DK.

So yes.

Did you seriously say Lloyd was broken?

SMH

These are harsh times, brudda. We just gotta accept facts and all pick up Goku to counter Lloyd like the scrub character he is

Serious question:
What is your take on / ? I think it's around 65:35 to 70:30

How should Lloyd play in Lloyd v ZSS and Lloyd v DK

Truthfully, I don't have much MU knowledge with Sheik. But from what I know, Sheik shouldn't have a problem with this (I assume the left number on your ratios is Sheik otherwise I'd be really worried lol (for who, I'm not sure tbh). Sora does have some decent tools to defend himself and some good aerials and side b chains if he ever gets them but I'm pretty sure Sheik can play pretty aggro and win this without too big of a problem.
The MU to me is 70:30


ZSS and DK are two counters (DK is even according to some people) that I don't really enjoy playing against in all honesty lol.

One thing Lloyd can abuse in the ZSS MU is her feather weight. Down Bs, OoS Up Bs and Side Bs are really strong in this MU. I'd play the MU quite neutral as ZSS has both good defense options and engages. ToS is probably the most optimal stage for this MU since it's distance is pretty helpful for this MU. It's not too big or small. A good way to engage would probably be Nairs and down Bs. Dairs could work too but I feel like they can be easily countered in this MU (unless they were short hop/near ground Dairs). One thing I would say is to stay clear of her stuns (projectile and side smashes). They can really screw you over.

DK is a real pain in the a**. His knockback is really frustrating. His armor is pretty stupid. That thing where he keeps you stuck onto the ground to set up a free kill is quite frustrating. His Up B is really annoying to work around unless you can perfectly land a nair from directly above. For this MU, I'd probably keep to the air and spam neutral Bs whenever I can. Juggle a crap ton on DK so that his percentage is HIGH (I'm talking at least 70%). Once you get him high enough, engage with a dair, juggle him and up smash OR engage with a nair and side B. Pick a stage like Smashville or ToS.
Alternatively, just don't play this MU

I like the way you think

How do i beat lloyd?

How long do you think before this section becomes filled with AMAs?

Huh, I'll have to do an AMA when I come back after Apex lol, never thought of doing one.

Anyways, I'll be that guy, racks or back? I'd say racks personally lol.

Don't have any ssf2 questions, I already know Lloyd is the devil and is a 90:10 MU to Peach lmaooo

You don't.
Jk, just CP him with either Goku, DK, ZSS, MK or, the less popular option, Tails.
However, if your current chars are already god like then just pick a stage that gives you an advantage (stages like Mirror Chamber, BF, YS etc. are really bad for Lloyd).


Not sure if it will. Since answering good questions requires valid and informative answers (effort).
However, it'd be cool to see other top players doing AMAs since their answers or questions will differ to mine.



I see the MU as 50:50. But my playstyle favors Backs.