isnt the best or even top 15. She's the lightest character in the game, lacks range, and gets easily beaten by disjoints and projectiles.
isn't top 3, or even close to top 15. His tilts extend his hurtbox and have no intangibility, he loses a handful of MUs like Link, Luffy, Bandana Dee, Fox, and many more, his recovery is mediocre, and he has a hard time against projectiles and stage control.
is nowhere near the worst. Great kill throw, kill confirms at 50%, and multiple recovery options.
is too high, his moves get easily beaten out which hinders his neutral. He also struggles to kill.
should be bottom 5, poor neutral, can't approach, awful range, has no winning MUs besides Yoshi and Falcon, and easily gets beaten out by disjoints and projectiles.
Fox should be at least top 5, he has the bets rushdown and pressure game in SSF2.
is too high, he is nowhere near S tier. He has a much harder time killing compared to 0.9b.
is is not even close to being top 10, other than a great projectile game, good survivablity, and a Fair that does stupid damage she isn't too amazing at anything.
is too high. His Side B range got nerfed, exploitable recovery, and neural game isn't amazing.
should be at least 1 tier lower primarily because his moves greatly extend his hurtbox.
is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too low
is too low
is too low, his combo game is amazing and his projectile lasts long and can start combos.
is too low
is too high
is not bottom 5
is too low. He has top 5 run speed, good kill power, and great disjointed range.

you have a lot to work on my friend

Puff is good and I will keep saying that until someone wins a couple tournaments. She benefits a ton from the air acceleration change, and her bair can combo into itself. She struggles against Fox, but I don't think she's that bad.

Until projectiles change, she will have a rocky road to prove herself. And a lot of strong Up-airs/smashes in the higher tiers to punish her weight. I'd love to see her climb if some people put in the time, though.

...

I disagree with alot of what you say here.

Has the best air mobility, has kill confirms (some of which aren't even that risky) at <60%, and has plenty of combo-breaking and combo-starting moves. I believe she is the pinacle example of the SSF2 metagame, which is why I put her at the top.
is cheap. He's a hard-hitting character with too much range for non-sword or projectile moves, making combos way easier than they should be. His playstyle involves a lot of tech-skill, all of which can be overlooked and still be able to play him well. certainly doesn't deserve S-tier, but he belongs there.
DaFaq are you talking about? He can't recover without hurting himself, you have to have items on in order to have any given advantage with him, He can't even run right, you practically have to use his crappy air mobility to get around, and he has horrible frame data. Who do you think is worse than him?
Ok, I actually sorta agree with you, is really hard to use well, but I think fits pretty well in B tier when played at meta level.
Your description is a bit exaggerated I feel like. Given your profile you probably know more about Kirby than I do, but I'm fairly certain that C tier is right for him.
probably does belong in S-tier for the same reasons I put on top, but he's hard to find kill-confirms for. has the same problem and I felt he belonged in A tier, and has it a little worse, so I put him just slightly behind .
does belong on a lower tier, now that I think about it, but I wouldn't say he isn't *near* S-tier. He still has a good combo game with many kill setups. Plus, a lot of his moves have good amounts of hitstun.
has almost an entire moveset of high damage output and high knockback. With lots of option coverage, a shield-break setup, a projectile that kills at 60%, and decent speed, she's definitely S-tier. This might change in the next patch tho.
I'm biased when it comes to him, so feel free to ignore this one in particular, but his aerials and tilts give him good neutral options and combo game, his recovery is good enough that not many characters can exploit it and profit from it, and his side-B is still a decent damage option, even though it has a small hitbox and induces less salt than his 0.9b version. Why am I the only person who thinks this character is any good?
His edgeguard game is super unfair and his range on most attacks gives him super easy spacing and combo-breaking potential. I'll be honest tho, he does belong in B tier now that I think about it.
Did you see what Beta did to her? She got a nerf as big as Sora's buff! She's still at least somewhat useful, which is why I put her in D tier instead of E, but we can't honestly say she's fit for high-level play.
Very few people play as him, so I don't actually have a lot to base his placement off of, but it seems like he has really bad frame data, and he's overall really clunky to use. Am I wrong?
Probably does belong in A tier, actually. I don't think her frame data is the best though.
Also agree with you here. I can't remember why I put him in B tier. I think I was thinking that since he was one of the most well-rounded characters in the game he belonged in mid-tier. He definitely belongs in A or S tier. I do think that it's easy to beat him out with projectiles though.
has lots of good projectiles and has a kill confirm from anywhere on stage at 80%. He has decent frame data, good combo game, really good recovery (even if it requires some skill), and can rack up damage really quickly. He is difficult to get a hang of, but he has lots of potential in high level play.
Yes he is, he's even harder to get a hang of than Ness, and he doesn't have nearly as much potential. From what I can tell, you can only kill with him via edgeguarding, which he isn't even that good at.
has horrible frame data. He's clunky like but with more kill power and potential. He's really easy to punish, since a lot of his moves require commitment.

IMPORTANT EDIT: THIS IS NOT MY POST! I GOT HACKED!

Boi

NAir to Rest
FAir to Rest
DAir to Rest
Reset/Lock to Rest
BAir to Rest (VERY DI dependent)
UAir to Rest (Not true on most of the chars)
UThrow to Rest (True on Fast Fallers and might work on High Fallers)
There's also the occasional Shield Break to Rest achieved by the "Double Hit Pound Dash shieldbreak"

TIL

ditju just assummed mah genduh?

obligatory "you guys are dumb for putting Chibi in low tier, let alone Bottom 10" rant here


[box=Ravin Raven is a f*** idiot when it comes to Chibi and here is why]Sorry for the insult, but I needed to make sure you actually read this so I can try and explain just why you are so fundamentally wrong on so many levels.

Are you actually serious about the "Chibi is harder to get the hang of than Ness" part? Chibi is one of the most fundamental and basic characters in the game, if not among Smash in general. Meanwhile Ness has DJC, which already makes him more complex than Chibis entire arsenal. The character does not have a single AT left (granted, he only had one, which has been made unneccessary anyway in Beta), and actually the most "advanced tech" he has is angling his grab up and down. Not too hard. I guess landing DSmash on a skilled opponent is complex, but that doesnt make the character harder than Ness, who usually is considered to have a rather steep learning curve relative to the cast. tl;dr~ lmfao no u dumb

What triggers me even more (yes, thats actually possible) was your outright stupidity about Chibi not being a good edgeguarder. Have you actually ever played the character a decent amount to come to that conclusion? I seriously doubt you have, but if you have and still think that way, then Im sorry, but you are an idiot and deserved that. Edgeguarding is easily one of Chibis greatest strengths. Chibi Blaster is incredibly good at sniping opponents provided that you the player are and can easily set up for a followup or force a low recovery, which Dair is incredibly good at exploiting at. Bair despite all its dumb nerfs still hits hard enough to make for a threatening edgeguarding tool and also happens to have a pretty big disjointed hitbox. Nair has an angle that is outright disgusting to try and recover against, especially without a jump (which is not unlikely considering the whole concept of trying to recover n stuff). And dont get me started on Nair2. Fair has a hitbox that is outright absurd and only is hindered by its admittedly unfitting angle, and Dair is a decently strong meteor smash with tons of range, only being outclassed by Isaacs Side B. Uair also has a large disjointed hitbox which can easily snatch any attempt at a high recovery the opponent is making - the strong hit sends them right back offstage, the weak hit is essentially a free followup.

In addition to his aerial kit he has FSmash, which is incredibly good at punishing missed recoveries (infact, that moves straight up murders characters like Link if they end up offstage), has plenty of range and decent KB - nothing amazing, but enough to put you in an even stickier position back offstage or even flat out KO you at times. USmash, despite its tiny hitbox, is still a viable tool to punish high recoveries you wouldnt reach in time (lets say, Spacie Side B onto the plat that youre standing under) and converts the edgeguard into a play of "dont let the baloon touch the floor", which happens to be one of the other things Chibi is outstanding at. FTilt essentially is a safer FSmash with a more devious angle, and DTilt reaches low enough to cover most attempted sweetspot and safely convert into an aerial afterwards. And if all that wasnt enough, the little guy happens to be blessed with an aimable tether grab. Down Grab is super underrated but does an excellent job against low recoveries, and you should at least know that getting grabbed by Chibi is rarely ever a good thing. Up Grab also is a decent tool to put the opponent back offstage.


I could propably go on for way longer than neccessary, but thats just a general basic overview of Chibis edgeguarding tools.[/box]
To try and keep it somewhat short (lol), Chibi has a strong neutral game, good range, a fantastic projectile, a great anti-air game, a recovery that seriously needs a redesign because it is stupidly good and also happens to be one of the best edgeguarders in the game. His disadvantage state is among the worst in the game and his KO power his lacking unless you get the rare DSmash, Ill be the first guy to point that out and make a giant wall of rant about it. However, those flaws dont hinder the character enough to make him a lowtier or bad by any means. Not even closely. He also happens to have decent tournament results, which cannot be said for many other characters, including certain high/top tiers. Thats gotta count for something


EDIT: I just saw your statement on Goku lmfao that was a s*** right?

cheap? LOL he is far from cheap. His range is good sure, but they extend his hurtboxes without giving him intangibility, making some moves risky to use if mis-spaced. His combos don't work at high percents unless it's against a fast faller like Fox or Falcon. DK has too many weaknesses to be top 10.
Ever heard of Down B? using it and pressing up gives him vertical recovery without hurting himself. There is a tech where you can make him run faster. Also it's commonly agreed that Yoshi is worse than Sandbag. even the people who think Sandbag is low tier agree that Yoshi is worse than Sandbag.
I guess Dair makes his edgeguard game whack, but it's his only good edgeguarding tool and it has high startup so it can be avoided. His edgeguard game is his only real strength though.
Down Smash also kills. Up Air kills. He has more kill moves than you think.

Chibi DSmash is extremely situational and is nothing a good player should get hit by ever seeing as it requires either the hardest of reads or missing an easy tech. It is an option, but its far from reliable. Uair killing a kill move is a lie though. Way too weak. Chibi lacking KO power is propably the only thing Raven actually got right in his whole post (or at least from what I bothered to read) and is easily the biggest thing holding the character back and one of the most flawed design choices during the transition to Beta imo. Why the hell would you take a character thats notorious for having only 1 strong and 1 semi-strong KO move each and completely nerf/remove them without giving anything on a similar powerlevel back in return? I honestly cant count DSmash because thats how the move should have been since 0.9b Day 1, UTilt isnt nearly strong enough to replace the tweezers, and BThrow gets absolutely nuked by proper DI. Comeon devs, why you do this

I'm sorry guys...
One of my friends hacked into my account last night and made that wall of text that made me look like a huge f**.
I'm changing my password as we speak.

Though I gotta admit, he did a great job of impersonating me!

Will be posting a revised tier list this week.