Yeah, Wario's Down-Throw launches opponents horizontally and slightly downwards, which is a killer for fast-fallers. Plus the knockback is huge. You can tech it if you touch the ground.

Needs to be fixed. No throw should kill anywhere close to where that's killing fast fallers. He's ridiculously difficult to engage as it is.

I hate to admit it, but I think I agree with you. It really does destroy characters like Fox and only the multi-jump characters are able to safely recover without interference.

I honestly quit that game just because of it lol. I felt so cheap and used. Sitting at 60 something % and not even all that close to the ledge, and I was gone. From one grab. I'm sure I could've DI'd it better, but I play so few Warios that I don't even know what his grabs look like.

And while we're on the subject, Sheik's back throw is also ridiculous near the edge. It's pretty much a spike on fast fallers, even when DI'd. Kills at stupid low %.

Sheik's back throw is really lame. It incentivizes campy play because bthrow + a little bit of edgeguarding kills at any percent.
Can't Wario's down throw be DI'd down and teched? For Fox at least, this escapes at nearly every percent and location. I worry that for some middle ground you can't tech but also can't recover, and that it would be super lame for a small subset of the characters, which I think would best be avoided. Even if you don't tech (which has an enormous window in this game, so is doable online), you often have a chance because your hitstun will go away. For example, DK is not very susceptible to this because after you DI down, even if you miss, you go off the edge and can use your recovery to cancel the momentum, which works until 120%, where you can't recover quickly enough and die a painful death.

I disagree about Wario's throw. If it is only effective against a few characters at 60%, fast fallers, I don't see a problem considering how little KO potential Wario has in the first place. Also, fast fallers are generally...well really fast and hard to grab. Wario's grab is by far the shortest and one of the slowest grabs in the game. Trying to grab a fox and missing just to be up-smashed and KOed at 60% is 90% more likely than successfully grabing a shifty fox and booting him off screen.

His dthrow is kind of like Wolf's Brawl dthrow, but much stronger. Both of which can be teched, and I think DI down + tech is a saviour. That said, Wario can easily set up a situation where you HAVE to tech in order to survive, and then he just covers the tech options (the only one I don't think he can cover on reaction is tech away cuz he's slow).

As for Sheik's bthrow, the devs took the approach of giving it disproportionate hitstun to knockback. The angle it sends on is pretty low, I wish that Fox didn't fall so far after getting bthrown. Maybe a reduction in hitstun but an increase in knockback. The decrease would have to be large enough to counter the increased KB but yeah. I don't want to derail the topic but since this throw came up I wanted to throw my thoughts down.

I don't like camping in this game. Everything I use is going to charge you. If I can't charge you with it, I'm not using it.

If you want to camp then go camping in the woods. Leave the simulated fighting to the non wimpy~

No johns here. It's just what I tell myself when I consider camping.

Dis is tru m8.

User was warned for this post.

Regarding dthrow, pretty sure DI down -> tech works for every character, and it's really easy to pull off considering the ludicrous window that you have to tech in this game.

Is Wario's {Jumping} Shoulder Bash animation supposed to last longer than it's hitbox? Sometimes this throws me off and I end up whiffing the move when I try to use it at max distance for reads.

Guys how the hell do you play wario.

Wario is a very defensive character with key methods for taking away stocks. Being heavyweight with a small frame is great for a defense character, and Wario has the necessary tools to keep his opponents at bay. His only problem is lack of range and lack of a projectile. I'll just put the basics down here since I still have some stuff to learn with the character.

The most important thing Wario needs to do is respect their opponent's range. If you play Wario like a rushdown character... you won't get very far. Wario's short little limbs aren't meant to be used offensively. I mean, look at them. Wario's only offensive move is Shoulder Bash, and that move is used as an escape tool more efficiently and is also very risky to be used towards your opponent.

If the opponent likes to play lame, then you should sit back and discourage them from approaching with aerials, Chomp, etc. The good thing about this is the fact that the opponent is letting you charge Wario Waft, which can either be your combo-finisher or punisher. One example of a combo leading to Wario Waft is Dtilt -> Air Chomp -> Fair -> Wario Waft.

If the opponent likes to play rushdown, then you're gonna have to work quite a bit in order to preserve your space. Again, try to discourage your opponent's approaches with aerials, Chomp, etc. If the opponent is in your face, you can either use Bair or Nair to try and knock them away from you, shield and go for a grab, or you can jump over them and Air Shoulder Bash away so you gain some more space. Don't Air Shoulder Bash away too often though, or else your opponent might catch on and keep running after you. The main thing you want to do is charge Wario Waft safely while racking % and preserving your space from opponents.

One problem that Wario may encounter is shields. For a character like Wario, hitting a shield is almost asking to get grabbed or Dolphin Slashed. Lucky enough Wario has a little tool that bypasses shields, and it's called Chomp. Mindgames have to be in play in order for Chomp to be used effectively. Many good players love shielding against Wario because of his Dash Attack, aerials, Shoulder Bash, and Down Tilt. If your opponent is shielding a lot, try and use Chomp to catch them. If you successfully catch your opponent, you can rack a lot of %, and this should scare them into tech rolling and spot dodging. This is very good, because Chomp does an excellent job catching tech rolls and spot dodges too.

Speaking of techs and spots, the only offensive momentum you can ever feel from Wario is when he tech chases opponents. Wario has lots of tools for reading techs, and some reads can lead to even more tech chasing. Some noteworthy examples are Dash Attack, SH Chomp, Shoulder Bash, and SH Nair.

tl;dr version: Keep opponents at bay, control your space, Chomp, Tech Chase, Charge Waft, boom.

Given the way you play Kirby, he should be right up your alley. Pretty much the same strat, but he has more tools.

I agree about how annoying camping is, but I do not feel your comment should be directed at Wario. 1) Let's get real, Tails is a meth addict. He has insane speeds and priority which enables you to charge at someone with zero precaution, good for you. I wish my character had the ability to approach tails in that sense, but quite frankly the fat man cannot without being shield grabbed. 2) Characters have to be made differently or else this game would be boring. Certain characters need more offense, certain characters need more defense; which also makes this game incredibly hard to balance and I give props to the developers for taking up such an arduous task. 3) Wario is fairly defensive with his aerial movement/lack of range but not entirely campy. Naruto hiding on dead body's charging a one hit KO move, campy; mario spamming fire, campy; up-b spamming DK, campy; up-b and multiple powerful projectiles link, campy; lloyd's projectiles and insane moveset with priority over everything, campy; bomb spamming samus, campy; megaman/dark mage/ZELDA just outright campy.

If you want to talk about camp then talk about the insanity of projectiles in this game first; each one is really strong and spammable with minimal repercussion. Melee was an amazing game because even though certain characters had them, they did not affect the outcome of a match as much as a player's hand speed and general knowledge of the game. Look at how great Fox is in that series and then look at how his lazers are just like a kiss on the cheek. Of the 9 non-smash series characters, EACH one of them has a projectile (tails including). In addition to all the characters from the regular series with them and how powerful projectiles are, this is just overkill. All they do is promote camping and prevent combos. Lately, I really only have fun playing SoldierSunday's falcon, reimu's shiek, and zalo's/marvin's/sparty's fox because of it.