If that doubles you mean was with cin and natey where we all used DK, then yes LOL.

I found some tech for mk and made a small video on it. I posted it on the discord but i know some people probably aren't on there so here.

camtasia is the usual recorder i go with but i didn't know the newer versions made a watermark until after the video :/

insert witty remark about watermarks here

Just as a little disclaimer regarding what you called "Edgecancel Tornado": That tech has been well-known since 0.9b (and possibly even longer, but I wasnt around during the 0.9a days so idk) and is generally called Fast Tornado. Using it isnt limited to running off the ledge either, all you have to do is press B just when youre about to land and you get it. The timing is a little strict, but this is pretty nice as a surprise attack. When Kirby uses Fast Nado he gains ludicruous speed and a pretty large hitbox that MK was unable to contest outside of his huge Bair in 0.9b (which is now gone, so I honestly dont know what MK can do to take Kirbynado head on), which tends to make the MU incredibly stupid and unfun to play.

Thanks for this i wasn't around 9b days nor have i seen any videos on related tech. But yeah i would see that when i would be under a platform also, and press jump and buffer the Tornado, and it still gets the Fast Tornado effect.

I want to actually get a discussion going because i don't see one.

So what characters do you think MK loses to the most?

The Characters who spell trouble for me so far is
-
Can never open him up you have to play his game.
Can kill you at 60 ish with vine up smash
Side B Down easily gimps you
Risky to gimp since ^
-
Can't respect too many moves, but must respect fair
CS kills at like 50
Basically Cancer.

I guess you can say this is a salty rant but I feel like saying this.

Ok so after some more matches today, I went through so much bs.

Great range? YEAH RIGHT LMAO WHAT his range is at-least better than wario's i guess but great range? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

How many moves can MK get BEAT OUT OF?!?

The idea of him "not killing" WOULD MAKE HIM EVEN WORSE.

Dies early and can't kill? HELL NO (he sometimes has hard times taking a stock, don't believe me? play MK against good players and show me your replays plz)

I can attempt up b to ledge and something can hit the 1st-2nd hit of the up b to SEND ME RIGHT BACK DOWN (shouldn't things like these trade? wtf).

My guy even dies at 80% or sometimes less (once was 65%)... who ever says he has decent survive-ability obviously NEVER PLAYED BETA MK..

WHY IS KIRBY NADO BETTER THAN MKs NADO? WHY!?!? (it's faster and MK has to tech nado just to do that, and kirby doesn't seem like he can get beat out of it while MK does..)

During my matches I get flash backs of the posts i've read talking about all the great things he has.

Sure he has many good things, but dying so early and buffer **** HIM OVER

A light character who gets combo'd hard.. LOL

Sometimes when I hear the clanking MK makes when he walks, why is he so light, when he has armor on + plus the sword? is his armor and sword made of paper mashe?

MK sounds really good on paper, but when you play him it's kinda different (i'm not saying he's bad, it's just different).

Is this one of the reasons why a lot of people dropped beta MK? I wouldn't blame them.

I know i'm get a response saying "get gud" , I already am trying to do that and I will hopefully get much better using MK.

You guys will probably come back saying he doesn't need any buffs or nerfs, i'm not suggesting anything cause I don't feel like getting 4-5v1 again with no one to back me up, I don't care, i'm just making a rant, period..

I'll admit my wrongs, but i'm kinda salty right now.

So you are saying you lost to a Wario? And his range isn't bad but it isn't the best you know? Best spaced move is bair but hey you can always fade back w fair?

He is good. I was gonna drop him until i improved my gameplay a bit with him. And coming from someone who only plays sm4sh, you actually have to practice ALOT with him so you get his moves. You can't just do things and then expect them to work.

For example: Bthrow up b sometimes doesn't work on some characters UNLESS you dash forward a bit. Kill moves like the d throw ftilt1 setup is good for kills too

There is alot of ways to kill as MK, you just cant always try to fish for them because the punish coming after your failed attempt to kill will hurt.

Also its probably like in smash when he absorbs someone, it gets powered up so maybe thats why? unless nado in 9b wasnt able to get hit out of and they forgot to change the property when he inhales mk.

No, this wasn't against wario, and i wont say the name of this character (unless I get more salty lol).

I know MK in beta takes a TON of practice, it's just the BS i'm seeing in matches I have with him are driving me insane.

Edit: I don't and will not drop MK, but right now ZSS seems a lot more fun to play and she's actually pretty decent, it's just the SD problem I have with her is just you know lol (i'm try to work around it). But right now, i'm just play ZSS for now and go back to using MK later when I think I can put up with the BS.

It sounds like a DI issue to die at 65%. Fox will die to Bomberman's Fair at 65% if not DI'd properly and at ledge. But that's just poor decision making; MK just gets punished harder for that kind of mistake than ZSS or other heavier characters.

F-smash and down-B can kill plenty early. And F-smash is pretty safe for how little end lag it has. Not to mention how easy it is for MK to wall out recoveries with Fair/Bair, especially since he has one of the best recovery kits in the game. Part of MK's survivability is packed in being almost impossible to edge guard, requiring the opponent to land a killing blow rather than gimping/edge guarding. This creates some really favorable MUs for him.

His range is good relative to his own size, meaning his disjoints meaningfully cover his hurtboxes, unlike someone like Bandana Dee who is of similar size but with crappy disjoints. Also having a really fast dash gives him a good range of reacting out of dash dance in neutral.

Not trying to shut you down, just don't think you should be salty over things that may not be completely the fault of the character.

Honestly, the fault of the character? him dying so early i don't think is supposed to be his fault (yeah i'm blaming devs here, unless Sakurai made his weight or w/e the exact same way.. i will then just blame Sakurai LUL) but that's just what I think.

f smash is safe, obviously except for start up, i don't usually random f smash unless they are on the ledge.

Btw, the 65% was my going through the ceiling while i was a little above the plat form top plat form on battle field (or somewhere else i forgot). But just to clear this up more, when I was through the ceiling, i was 65%, not before the hit that sent me there.

But either way, I do like his f-air and b-air range/hit boxes no complaint there.

I do need to start down smashing more.

Edit: NVM i figured it out. His weight from armor activates when he gets comboed, but magically turns to paper mache when getting hit to the blast zone. There I answered my own question, explains why a "light" character gets combo-ed hard lol.

Also, for those thinking you can spam dash attack, just stop.. I learned the hard way that even trying to be unpredictable with it while your opponent is on ground, that can easy shield then grab you. Just saying.

Also, i've been having trouble fighting characters like bbm, so idk if maybe you wanna add me on discord or see if i'm in ssf2 official match making and we can try see how that MU is? (i'm just trying to learn MUs at-least).

small notes.
note: im still learning the mu myself but this is what ive got so far.


- Regular bombs can reset you
- P bombs can set up for a kill
- Anytime they are making a bomb, mix up by charging them since you can catch up to them by the time the med bomb w dash attack/sh fair/sh nair, or sh dair. Be careful tho if they throw it early you can mix up and jump over them, but they can also throw it up.(most of the time its thrown up to interrupt someone charging them)
- Fair is kinda scary at any percent since its knockback is crazy
- Dair w some jumps is a good approach
- Once second jump is used offstage, predict where they will try to go and punish /w bair for a free kill around 50-60ish percent. If carried off stage w no jump, just abuse your aerials and air mobility because he can only go so high w his up b.
- You can snipe him from the ledge using down tilt/down smash
- Hes combo food so you can do whatever to whatever pretty easy
- Without bombs he doesn't really do much outside of throws into fair or up air nair approach ect

Be wary that most BBM players are average outside of myself, OriginalJoey, and maybe like 1-2 others that only utilize BBM as a secondary.

Bomberman's small bombs can really screw up approaches and combos, but the key is to keep him airborne and always challenge his recovery. You die extremely early to P-bombs, D-smash, U-smash, Uair, and Fair, so focus on empty-hops and dash-dancing to bait out unsafe options. Focus on grabs and Uair/Dair to start combos.

Meta Knight (0.3)

Adjusted heavy knockback animations
Forward Smash:
Increased damage (14->15)
Decreased base knockback (32->30)
Increased knockback scaling (95->108)

Down Smash:
Fixed attackboxes without any knockback stats assigned to them
Lowered angle (43->35)
Reduced base knockback (55->36)
Increased knockback scaling (85->96)

Back aerial:
Final hit:
Reduced damage (9%->5%)
Increased knockback scaling (120->180)

Down Throw:
Increased ending lag by 1 frame

All his changes (copy pasted obv)

I find doing a d-tilt to a dash attack to a grab attack or a up-tilt a good combo start up. you can get like 30% then just go for the up-air spam to up-special. Works for me sometimes. - Spoopy_Wolfx

I actually find this very useful when i wanna start off something on your opponents next stock.

https://f2brstrife.wordpress.com/2017/1 ... ght-1-0-3/

Made by Strife

Hmmm, what a night.
A dark and stormy knight! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH