The McLeodGaming forums were permanently closed on April 30th, 2020. You are currently viewing a read-only archive.
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri May 15, 2020 3:37 am



 [ 4 posts ] 
Metagame Problems Discussion 
Author Message
BR Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 2880
Location: ...if you bougth this cd you have been cheated...
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Male
MGN Username: KarmaPilcrow
Skype: BaffleBlend
Currently Playing: the waiting game
Waifu: Furry trash.
This came up in the Slack chat; quite a few people around here believe that the SSF2 metagame is a train wreck, and I'm inclined to agree. At first I thought it was just the lack of tournaments, but it's become clear to me that it's far from the only issue.

Now, what exactly do we think is wrong and why, and what exactly can we do about it?

_________________
ImageImage
Image


Sun May 08, 2016 8:56 pm
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 930
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Gender: Male
Waifu: Yume
I'm the most guilty of this, and it sounds very hypocritical of me to say but...

People are trying to play SSF2 like any other smash game, the same fundamentals apply but SSF2 is its own game with things that work and things that dont. I think the quicker you learn to play SSF2 for what it is, the better you can combat the games immediate threats that you're faced with. It's all about adaptation. :)


Sun May 08, 2016 9:11 pm
SSF2 Developer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:47 pm
Posts: 2316
Location: BC
Country: Canada (ca)
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Complacency breeds weakness. My opponents won't stop getting stronger, neither will I.
We take the years of metagame development that other fighting games have for granted. We come from backgrounds where the players are established and the how and need to improve is so ingrained in the mentality of the community that you cannot avoid it, everyone has it. And the skills levels of the top players are so high and they have such a mastery of the game that their abilities cannot be questioned. Heck, new fighting games and sequels piggyback off of the large audience from the previous game and that's how their metagames can advance so quickly. Compare the metagame growth of Melee to the competitive growth of Smash 4, Smash 4's metagame is advancing WAY faster than Melee's. That's because they have the years of experience from Brawl and Melee and 64.

However, we do not have that for SSF2.

While the game has many similarities from the main titles, the majority of its audience do not have years of competitive experience, let alone any. So it can be hard to piggyback the past knowledge from previous games to this one on a large scale. But that's okay, the top 10% of players are the ones that develop 90% of the metagame.

So what are those 10% of players doing? Blaming the other 90% for being bad and the game for being bad. If you want the game to succeed, blaming it and jumping ship "until Beta" isn't going to fix the problems you see with the community. Of the top players in this game, the majority of them have a decent amount of competitive FG/smash experience and then can transfer the skills over. And that's where they are taking those years of experience for granted.

Were any of you around back in the early days of the Street Fighter community? What about in the early days of the Melee community, back when it was Ken that dominated the scene and whoever could master their techskill would rise to high level play? I'm not even talking about more modern series that have the benefit of the other fighting game communities to grow off of, I'm talking about when the scene was being built from the ground up.

I bet that if you were (not that I'm saying I was, because I most certainly was not), you would probably agree that the early communities looked just like SSF2's, more or less. Everyone was bad, no one had years of fighting game experience to transfer over, and tournaments just popped up whenever among the few that were trying to prove their skill.

So here's where I'm going with this. The people that hail from larger communities don't understand what it takes to grow a scene, or how bad the playerbase is at the start of a game's lifespan. So, they kind of look down on the community and the playerbase as a whole for being so bad, completely forgetting where they came from. They too were once at that skill level or worse, and if you say "no I was never that bad" well good for you, you elitist. That is exactly the attitude you need to drop in order to get a game off the ground. Instead of looking at the other 90% of players with disdain for not just knowing how to play the game, you should be HELPING them by transferring your knowledge of past games to them. If the ppl that hail from other communities work hard, you can bring up the skill level of these other players and jumpstart the meta in the same way that other fighting games do with their previous communities. What happens is these players get here, become auto top 10% material due to their past skill, then see how bad the community is, and then they look down on the game, john about it and/or leave outright, instead of seeing exciting potential to pioneer a new game.

Look, SSF2 isn't perfect, but it is a work in progress and leaving the community and only complaining about it will not fix it. We've had this version for a couple of years now, complaining about it's balance is pointless since we've seen so many changes coming up for Beta. And if you, as a top 10%'er, leave the community "until Beta", good job you have just lowered the average skill level of the community.

---------------------------

So now that said, in order to not be a hypocrite I have to also provide solutions instead of just complaining about the ppl complaining. The top players need to be more inclusive regarding low skill players. As top players, it is our responsibility to help bring the new players up AND NOT INSULT THEM FOR NOT KNOWING WHAT WE CONSIDER TO BE SO SIMPLE, SUCH AS TECHING. At some point, you didn't know it either (and if you always knew about since your first day of playing your first smash game good for you you special snowflake. It doesn't give you the right to derogate them) and had to learn it. Doesn't sound very motivating if there is a group of ppl that laugh at you when you simply don't know. Those people are just like you and me, they have lives and some of them actually do want to get better, they just don't know how. I played Melee for years before finding out that it had a massive competitive scene, and the resources for improvement are fantastic. So, where are those for SSF2?

The players with the top 10% are slacking off regarding this. Don't complain that the new players are bad if you aren't going to actually try and train them, or at least provide resources to help them improve. And you can't think that you are training someone that is competitive-minded, you need to train the person from their skill level in order for them to see any success. I've been streaming with my friend for over a year, and when he started out he had very low skill. He still has a long way to go, but by giving him a lot of practice and pointing out where he makes his mistakes in a way he can understand (without making it sound like I'm nagging) he has improved A LOT. Occasionally he tells me of his success transferring SSF2 skills to the main smash games against random ppl. While these guys are low skill level in those games, the fact that prior to the training he would stand no chance against them is incredible.

----------------------------

TL;DR cuz I know you like that stuff:

Some of the top 10% need an attitude adjustment. We exist in a small scene with very little development and you are used to belonging to a scene with a lot of development. We are living in shacks but used to living in mansions. Instead of trying to improve our living conditions, some just get up and leave because the living conditions aren't what they are used to. We have a chance to create an entire game's scene, and if you choose to leave you are missing out on an incredible opportunity. Do not forget your roots, and try to bring up the less skilled players instead of berating them.

Teach them or provide resources for them to learn from. Use your previous knowledge for the good of the community! Don't get frustrated if they don't learn quickly or if you have to be very clear of if they are "really bad". Sun Tzu once said, "If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame."

I guess ultimately it comes down to two ideas. "Be the change you want to see in the world", OR "accept the game and ALL of its quirks or just get out of here lol".

This is far from a comprehensive list, but I think that we need to stop looking at the 90% as being the problem and instead start looking at the 10%.

_________________
Men that are trapped by the chains of "maybe" can never reach their dreams!
The weak are washed away by the tides of fate. The strong drink it up.
No matter the man, we all wear masks. Whether it be over our faces or over our hearts.

Youtube: NinjaLobsterStudios
Stream: twitch.tv/ninjalobster

Click to expand thumbnail


Mon May 09, 2016 2:00 am
BR Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:22 pm
Posts: 1448
Gender: Female
God tier post.

_________________
SoldierSunday wrote:
Nothing you do is viable.


Mon May 09, 2016 9:01 am
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 [ 4 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.