What I'm saying about representation is that theorycrafting, even if it's the best we have, isn't super useful. If I have to compare two characters that seem roughly as good as each other, but one of them has a track record of being successful in competitive play and the other doesn't, I'd put the represented one higher. Especially when you consider that Fox, often considered one of Bomberman's worst matchups in v0.9b, is now one of the most-played and best characters.

I fully expect something similar to happen as to 9b, where once BBM gets reps he gets a much more solid place on the tier list. Until then, however, I'm not sure you can make an argument for BBM above where he is in the current meta.

Pichu S-Tier?

Pichu is P-Tier. That's good and bad if you know what it actually means.

Kirbty K-tier?

I get that, but what I'm speaking to moreso is that there a rather defined opinions of him coming from people who don't bother to play him. That hurts the validity of his position since it was determined by people who don't use him much at all.

^ Chibis placement in a nutshell

And Yoshi's
And also Kirby's
And Smash 4's Olimar, who the hell plays--
Luckilyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Yoshi is gettin' a juicy resprite (As well as a resprite of his Home Court, awwwwww yeah)
Smash 4 Olimar is getting some attention atleast
But Kirby's fresh outta luck, sorry myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy dude, maybe next patch

135, this is aimed at you most of all.

Anyway,like I said, it was way to soon for this list since the patches aren't even over and we just got a new character. Its like what happened with smash 4's first tier list, along with the balance patches that don't make any sense for certain characters, like decreasing weight.

This so much. It's impossible for us to play every character even if we wanted to, and when comparing characters, tourney results/known good players are probably gonna triumph over other aspects unless it's blatantly obvious that one char is better.


Imo BBM doesn't have anything blatantly amazing that would put him higher on the tier list, especially as he received mainly nerfs from 9b as far as I can tell, and nobody is out there making a name for themselves as a great BBM, so why would I rank him higher?


I'd like to stress again that this is a CURRENT META tier list, we're going as light on the theoretical stuff as possible.

I still don't get why is SO high. He should certainly switch with in general. gets easily counterplayed by Opponents that know the matchup making surprisingly easy to invalidate in general. still has a horrendous grab game even with it being marginally better than Smash 4 due to its high end lag and lack of active frames. also pretty much can't kill without overcommiting OR having to setup a lot which is hard in rushdown matchups. And has horrendous matchups in general as he only wins against the bottom tiers and a couple of low tiers in general while losing to basically every mid tier character or higher outside of maybe in general. Kyoz did get a good upset at Gax saga and does place well, but he rarely goes to tournaments and there is a lack of other players. Like literally, list 2 other players that are not Kyoz that are notable players of the yellow menace. is the definition of matchup inexperience. He can be tricky for those that don't know the mu but he's a bad character if they know the matchup. And more top level players will learn the matchup more thanks to Kyoz which will render as quite an inefficient and inconsistent tournament pick. Even kyoz himself admits being a pretty bad character in general due to his flaws and for of course good reason. I'd like to see some counter arguments for my claim by the backroom regarding his placement, thanks.

Pac-Man has Kyoz, M7 IIRC, and Masky as solid reps. Kyoz, of course, has achieved great success with the character.

How many characters even have 3 reps that place highly in tournaments? That's a really high bar. Pac-Man has a ton of meta development with room to grow, solid tourney results, and from what I've seen not terrible matchups. Again, who knows whether Pac-Man is actually amazing or terrible? What we can say is that in the current meta Pac-Man fits where he his.

I play him... wait, I'm irrelevant so my opinions don't matter I guess

Miracle--7 doesn't really play Pac-Man he plays Pit and Masky doesn't really do much in the Pac-Man meta either.
But I guess I do see your argument regarding 3 notable players, they don't really need to place super high, but they need to at least progress something. Even bottom tiers like at least have a couple of notable players that are good with the green dinosaur, and even obscure characters like have at least 3 people playing him that could count as notable, etc. And Pac-Man only really has 1 person that is relevant who happens to be Kyoz who is of course a god with pretty much anyone. And a lot of people also mentioned how his high placements in tournaments with pac-man were likely matchup inexperience as well. And again it isn't like Kyoz has done a lot of tournaments either in the future. Generally having 2-3 notable players (Doesn't even need that much tournament results but just need to demonstrate how great the character is) is generally pretty necessary especially if its just one god showing off the character.

But results aside, Pac-man pretty much struggles against anyone that knows the matchup which no one did at the time. But as the meta progresses and even at this state where everyone knows the matchup thanks to Kyoz, Pac-Man will simply drop down in viability and have main issues.

I just want everyone to take a look at this.



That will be all.

Uhh and what is this suppose to show?