I've actually found some sort of use to forward smash. As far as I tested, it's still like a tipper, so if you run, cancel (by pressing down) fast enough and use it, while an opponent is at free-fall (after using up special) you may use it, because its hitbox is a bit bigger than up smash's and down smash's ones, making it easier to land. Thus, using it makes techreads on d-throw also easier, and it seems to kill oponents near the ledge more reliably. For example, up smash kills falco at ~103%*, while forward smash near ledge kills him at ~85%*. It's just a niche, but it's ok enough. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

*Tested at Final Destination with SDI

is too op every move combos into each other PERFECTLY and you can attack after up - B and 0 to death is EZ on level 9 cpu

Main:
Secondary:

Effectiveness on a CPU isn't a great way to gauge viability, CPUs play in ways real humans don't and are usually super predictable.

@Nonya Agreed. Like, seriously, have you seen the way Level 9 Ken and Ryu CPUs in Smash Ultimate work when you're using a Mii Brawler with a Level 9 CPU King K. Rool as your teammate? They're so pathetic!

why F Tier

Octopus

It's great, but that was already post on the wiki.

I want his ultimate moveset but with smash 4 forward air aka the credit card

So i accidentally absorbed something i thought didn't count as an "energy projectile" with his Bucket and i realized
I haven't made a list on what can he bucket and what he cannot

...Until now
Characters marked with an asterisk (*) just mean that they're also in the "Other Effects" list

Characters who can fill G&W's bucket:
• All fireballs are obviously "bucketable" but nothing else
• * Only if she picks up a Ray Gun out of her DownB
• * While arrows and bombs separately cannot be absorbed, Bomb Arrows (and their explosions, with a deceptively long absorption range) can be bucketed
• Din's Fire (SideB) can be bucketed, both the projectile's initial "detonation" and the explosion afterward (the latter of which is only possible with a third player), bucketing the explosion deals more damage
• UpB can be absorbed, both the explosion and the smoke. And most surprisingly, NeutralB can be bucketed, meaning a charged Needle Storm will immediatelly fill a bucket (excess needles will phase through G&W) (bucketing just Smoke deals 15% damage, just explosions deal 30%, and Needles are either 15% or 30% depending on the charge)
• * [Pichu] Thunder Jolt (NeutralB) can obviously be bucketed, however Thunder can only be bucketed if it's the lightning bolt, rather than the "explosion" (the bucket has just enough range to absorb the thunder before it reaches Pi/Ka if they're on even ground, just careful to not be facing away), and it will only absorb 1 part of the lightning bolt rather than all of its sections
• Only his UpB's landing projectile can be absorbed
• normal NeutralB cannot be bucketed, but the projectile version can. Interestingly, his spear counts as an energy projectile in his SideB
• Obviously their blaster shots can be bucketed, same applies for when they use it in their throws (though only possible at extreme percentage or with a third player)
• Another obvious one - her charge shot can be absorbed, the thing is that only the charge shots can fill G&W's bucket, her DownB bombs still damage G&W
• Only NeutralB can be absorbed, again
• PK Fire (both the bolt and the fire pillar, no change in damage), PK Thunder, and PK Flash are all easily absorbed
• An obvious one is his arrows. but here's a VERY weird thing - you can for some reason bucket his DownB during its startup, but only in front of Pit
• All his tilts can be absorbed by the bucket, and all specials except NeutralB can be absorbed too (NeutralB still strangles G&W regardless of bucket)
• Only NeutralB can be absorbed
• * Only NeutralB can be absorbed
• NeutralB (any charge, with increasing damage per charge) can be bucketed easily, SideB is unaffected, DownB is your best bet (Running into it with the bucket out allows you to fill it entirely in one go, or at least 2 charges!), FSmash also can be absorbed (it also gives the most damage, aside from a fully charged NeutralB), Jabs and Up-Air can be absorbed in a pinch too
• * Only his fire hydrant's water jets can fill G&W's oil bucket (being right up against it can fill up to 2 charges at once, depending on which way it spits out water, though this is risky considering Pac's playstyle)
• Only his NeutralB can be absorbed
• His bombs are the only thing that can be absorbed, but only upon detonation
• Surprisingly (to me), his Meteor cannot be absorbed, and even more surprisingly is that his Up-Air also cannot be absorbed, the only attacks you can bucket are his full-charge FSmash and full charge DSmash (similarly to Megaman's DownB, running into it and using bucket lets you get the most charges out of it)
• Only his DownB's Blizzard/Thunder can be absorbed, Blizzard fills a bucket entirely in one go but the projectiles linger for long enough to be able to freeze G&W as he takes the bucket away, Thunder deals more damage but only gives one charge
• Kamehameha and Ki blasts are easily absorbed (Kaio-Ken kamehameha is absorbed twice when fully charged and up close, as it creates 2 kamehameha's to give the illusion of a "sweetspot" when at close range)
• ONLY the Rasenshuriken can be absorbed (normal rasengan can't be absorbed even when it's activated), and similarly to Fox, his FThrow projectiles can be absorbed (which require a third player or extreme damage percentages)
• Only his NeutralB can be absorbed


Characters who cannot fill G&W's bucket in any situation:
• Surprisingly, the DownB stars cannot be bucketed
• Waft cannot be bucketed
•
•
• No, you cannot bucket Sing
•
•
•
• the spring can't be absorbed
•
• * (Assuming items are disabled, of course)

Other Effects:
• - Anything thrown at G&W just phases through him while the bucket is out, this could help with catching any turnips or avoiding a bob-omb (Explosions don't get bucketed, but you don't take a hit either), any attacks done with a Beam Sword just phases through G&W unless touching Peach.
• - While G&W's bucket is out, bombs can't harm him when exploding if touching the bucket first (they behave normally if the bomb reaches from behind or above him first, but not in front)
• - If he attempts summoning another thunder with the previous one still onscreen, the old thunder is absorbed a second time while the current one loses all its hitboxes and becomes harmless sprites, however it will still trigger the explosion when touching Pikachu (Pichu has wayyyy too much endlag on a whiffed thunder to test this though)
• - his UpB robot will ignore G&W completely for as long as it can stay onstage if it touches the bucket, however its eventual "self-destruct" will still harm G&W (the explosion cannot be absorbed, and the robot can still of course be destroyed normally with attacks)
• - Similarly to Peach, any special fruit thrown at G&W phases through him since they're counted as items, allowing you to catch them much more easily, the fire hydrant as a "projectile" also just passes through G&W, and using DownB during the "bouncing" animation on his trampoline allows you to sort of "bucket jump", though you cannot move horizontally nor there is any change in momentum (if you use the bucket too late you'll cancel all your momentum like usual and risk gimping yourself)
• - UpB's explosion is not absorbed but still prevents taking damage, making G&W almost invincible to a "kamikaze bag". And again, since capsules are items, they just phase through G&W should they throw them at him, exploding capsules are not absorbed


edit: Once 1.2 eventually comes, i'll try to remember also checking out how does the bucket deal with the new characters (and check if anything in this list has been changed too, just in case)

So, on the post about Sandbag being able to "double sanddash" by jumping and at the same time sanddashing so he can use it a second time before landing on the ground

I love the stuff you lab and figure out.
If only more people in this community had the passion you had for this game.

Why/how don't people have passion for the game?

For starters, it's a free to play flash game with a minimalist community and shakey internet connections.
And for the community itself, the skill displayed from most people are usually stagnant and the meta never progresses due to lack of devotion or players willing to try out new things.

While testing this double Upb tech for more things, i've found out your controls only glitch out if you attempt to UpB before jumping out of the parachute state.
So watch out for lag/input delay, and avoid spamming the B button when attempting the tech

My favorite master of RNG aka Mr. Game & Watch has been buffed.
*happy beep boop boop noises*

Yes, i had way too much free time and just noted down his frame data and all while waiting for 1.2


• As far as i can tell, smash attacks seem to be unchanged?

+ FTilt's knockback has been increased and can now kill at around 110% on the ledge
- Not completely sure about this one, but seems like DTilt's knockback growth has been decreased slightly
+ NAir now drags the opponent much better and pulls them into G&W's fish bowl instead of around it
+ FAir's endlag and landing lag have both been reduced by 3 frames (FAir previously took 22 frames from start to finish, and had a landing lag of 9 frames)
         - but now it deals 10% damage and (i think, almost pretty sure) lower knockback.
+ Up-Air's first hit now has set knockback, allowing the second hit to reliably connect

• Judge 3 now instantly breaks shields instead of Judge 4
+ Judge 7 FINALLY spawns food again when hitting an opponent
• UpB now has set knockback based on G&W's "speed" when jumping (the start of the move has stronger knockback, while at the end it barely does much) instead of having base and growth at all given moments of UpB

- Forward Throw has much less base knockback
         + It can now chaingrab non-floaty opponents


That's all the differences i've noticed so far
Edits:
• Dash Attack's knockback angle has been changed to throw the opponent at an angle of about 30° instead of mostly straight upwards
+ The second hit of Up-Air's knockback seems to have been increased too, i only remember it killing at 130% at a double jump's height, not from ground level



~ ~ ~ WALL OF EDIT (Feb 16th) ~ ~ ~
Yep, i was right - smash attacks were unchanged, his up and down tilts have lower knockback, and up-air kills earlier.

Anyways, as the last thing to be checked in my to-do list i made while waiting for 1.2 to release...
Bucket List