It actually comes out on frame 3 (aka frame 5 for a main game), just like scumbag said fast, but not that fast. No faster than Falcon's uair or Fox's utilt.

But I don't think it's a bad move at all, especially since he can crawl to space it better (especially since it has only 3 frames of endlag after 4 frames of being active).

Ah, my bad. Granted, frame 3/5 is still decently quick, and I'm fairly certain that Utilt combos into Uair, Bair or Up B on most characters that DI up to avoid dying to a Dtilt. I'll have to check that one.

Scum, it seems to me that your issue with Dtilt is not that it's a bad move per say, but rather that it doesn't do what you would like it to. Am I correct in my reading of your post?

Down tilt wasn't the point of my original post. The reason i say it's bad is because the risk of using it very much out-weights the reward. You can't combo into it at high percents, its range means you can't space with it making it a bad move to use in neutral, and its not safe on shield giving it very little viability overall. But down tilt is just an example of the many moves that don't correspond with the overall goal of the character.

What is the overall goal of the character? Please explain this to me.

This is something that has always got me about you, you always bring the character down.

I see what's wrong with the character and has address what can be improved about him. However, with you, its like you want a complete overhaul of the character to suite what you want really want the character to be. That's what I get whenever I see you bring down this character or trying to say what he needs.

To be brief, the point of Naruto was to be a punish oriented character with a projectile game. In terms of theses aspects, Naruto's current design is pretty much a fail. As far as the criticism, I'm really not trying to bring him down or anything. He was a fun character to main back when v.9b was still relevant. I liked stuff like his ground speed, fair, and pseudo wave-lands, but his current moveset revolves around dumb stuff like dash attack up-tilt auto combos. If they just took the liberty of fixing his moveset to coincide with the latter then I'd think he would turn out into an amazing character.

This is what I don't understand about your argument, Scum. Naruto's current itteration is precisely what you are describing: a "punish oriented character with a projectile game." Granted, I don't think this is currently done in the most elegant or fair manner imaginable, but Naruto's basic design is pretty solid. He seems more like a character that requires modifications to the moves that he already has rather than a total overhaul. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you?

My entire argument is based off the fact that Naruto is a poorly designed character in terms of his punishes and projectile game. I mean ya, V.9b Naruto is a character based off of punishes and projectiles. But the way they went about doing it was terribly though out and isn't something I would except from a legitimate balance team. Like I said in previous posts, his entire punish game is based off of auto-comboing to the point were he can't combo If they gave his moves proper knock-back scaling. They need to give him moves (more so aerials) dedicated to proper DI based juggles. His projectile game is based off of zoning characters out and gaining complete stage control. This doesn't go with the whole idea of his up close game and often times ends up with Naruto running away form opponents to zone. They need to rework clones to were they're a means of approaching and starting combos. I agree that some of his current move-set should be modified, but other things should be reworked. That why I'm asking for a drastic overhaul, not a total overhaul.

I see your argument and agree with a few points, but at the same time not truly getting what you are saying.

Naruto is a character who can be played multiple ways like other characters. May it be zoning, rush down or opting for stage control.

Naruto will have to zone against characters who just out range him and who more priority then he does, which forces him to zone. Though this gives him more trouble when a character has the ability to just take out his projectiles and steal his stage control away from him.

I would say he needs a buff to his range and priority in order to do better. If his projectile game gets nerfed, I am fine with that, but as long as he gets buffed to his physical attacks.

When you say auto combos to the point he can't combo any more, isn't that every character?

Yes, Naruto has an auto combo, but people have learned to D.I. his combos so I am not sure if this is a problem. If they can't combo with up tilt anymore, they can just do his aerials, which can lead into many kill set ups, which I like.

I try to approach with nair, but it will get knocked out by superior moves by other characters.

Naruto has an easy 0-death on Fox: Chaingrab f-throw until offstage, then forward tilt

That's not a true chain grab.

Dash button says hi.

I know what DI is, and after retesting it, it doesn't work on certain ones(plzdon'thurtmekthanks).

Fun fact: All throws in SSF2 can be Smash DI'd, and the kunai on the throw can also be SDI'd. If you hold away for the throw (to get both the DI on the throw and the SDI on the throw hitbox), then reset your control stick (or keyboard inputs) to neutral (ie there has to be a frame where you press no direction), then you can hold away again for the kunai and get another SDI input to help you get away even faster. Naruto's fthrow is pretty free tho (as a Falcon main that plays against a Naruto all of the time, I know how annoying that throw is), but getting this double SDI input (and if you have cstick buttons or something, use those at the same time to double your SDI distance).

Even if this double SDI doesn't save you from a followup, at the very least you get closer to the edge with each throw and your percent will be lower by the time you get there.

That is very interesting, didn't know that.