I think it's 50-50. We're talking about two of the three most volatile characters in the game here. There wouldn't be enough consistency on either side to determine a substantial difference. Personally, I'd rather be the Fox. More options.

Agreed about the volatility. Skill is by far the most important thing in the MU.

I dunno, Fox doesn't have a move that kills at like 20% on Falcon. But Falcon don't have the tech skillz Fox does. I think Falcon wins with his 0-death chain grabs, not even Marth or Sheik could do that to Fox in Melee.
Then again, that's only if he gets a grab. Fox, as we all know, is bound to be jumping around everywhere.

Kinda reminds me of MK vs the Ice Climbers in Brawl. He super hard to grab, but once you do, it's game over if you know what you're doing. Does that make Falcon the new Ice Climbers?!? Cuz that'd be swag.

Falcon technically has a zero-death on Fox on stages without onstage platforms, it's highly dependent on reacting to DI and is not easy to pull off, and I'm pretty sure that if Fox DI's to the end of the stage he should do fine. I think Fox can kill Falcon early with Shine, but it's not really something to go for. I say it's unclear but probably even, and I'd rather be the Fox.

Just wanted to let it be know that my #1 request for Fox is his melee "Come on!" taunt. Devs, please.

Hmmm the chain grab is not as useful as you would think guy.

I'm not sure what to do think of the MU actually.

How is the chaingrab not useful? It is not that hard to do, can combo into Knee in certain situations, does a solid 30%, and sets up for edgeguarding.

So you are saying that it's easy to pull off and the opponent can't D.I. anywhere?

I have been trying to do it with no luck when the opponent D.I.s to far away. Also what chain-grab are we even talking about?

I believe he's talking about the uthrow chaingrab vs. Fox. It's really good because if you get them to the edge with it (they'll most likely be trying to DI away) you can mixup their DI and get a dthrow -> dropzone knee. I don't think it's escapable via DI until pretty high percents.

EDIT: also I don't see how you have all these opinions on matchups when you clearly have little player vs. player experience as your online doesn't work. Especially in the Fox vs. Falcon matchup, neither of which are your mains.

lol this made laugh.

also I don't see how you have all these opinions on matchups when you clearly have little player vs. player experience as your online doesn't work.
OMG are you serious? The same could be said for the majority of BR members who have been creating tier lists and giving their opinions on MUs before online was started. Wow nice argument.

Especially in the Fox vs. Falcon matchup, neither of which are your mains.
Some members of the BR probably don't main these guys either, but still give good analysis on who wins the MU.
For your information I secondary both of them if you didn't know. I also work on the wiki if you didn't know that as well so I'm suppose to know about characters attributes.

Wow you just love making yourself look like a fool don't you? How about you stop before things get to crazy.

whoa there this got nasty fast, even bolding what I said.
just saying most of what you say seems to be strongly based on opinion and not fact, and you try and put down others' opinions a lot despite not knowing much yourself.
"the same could be said for the BR" because they actually know what they're talking about.
and don't bother replying to this cause I'm stopping "before things get to crazy", as you put it so nicely.

sorry for derailing the thread fellas.

Back to the thread Fox does have a chain grab on Falcon with his up throw and can also lead into up air or up smash combos.

They both have great ground speed so it would be hard for Fox to camp out Falcon and do to blaster not dealing knockback makes it even worse for Fox to camp.

They're both combo food for each other and their recoveries are linear for each other gimp the others recovery.

Anyone else want to help out?

Fox-Falcon is even in my opinion. They both destroy eachother so easily onstage and offstage. At the most its +1 for Fox, but thats stretching it. The MU may actually be, but I don't think thats justified based on the current metagame. The main caveat is that Fox can beat every character in the game (except for MAYBE the top 3 characters) as long as he doesn't get constantly opened up. Then again, every character in the game can also beat him due to his main weakness.

-Both guys chaingrab eachother
-Fox can get good juggles and combos through use of upthrow, utilt, uair, nair, and upsmash. He can combo bairs into eachother too
-Falcon's chaingrab is more devastating imo, but he will probably want to opt for nairs until Fox starts going into tumble from them. Then he gets the nasty tech chases and the punishes that go along with that
-Fox, with shine, gets a very strong pressure game (especially on shield). Falcon's best oos options are grab and roll, so if he ever gets stuck in shield against Fox he needs to time one of his limited options well, since multishine beats grab/roll but loses to holding up the shield (just do more multishines lol) and shinegrab beats grab and staying in shield (loses to roll, a very important point). Everytime Falcon gets caught in his shield, Fox should just go for a shinegrab and get his amazing combo game going to end the stock. If Falcon starts rolling out of that, Fox can just start doing multishinegrab and win money.
-Overall, they punish eachother equally hard onstage, although Falcon's look more flashy. Again, I stress that Fox has way more options than Falcon.

-Edgeguarding feels like it leans towards Fox's favour, since Falcon's recovery isn't great, but Fox's can be shutdown by a single reverse uair. Maybe a slight advantage in Fox's favour simply because he has more options when recovering than Falcon does (even though he dies more quickly to successful edgeguards). Falcon has very little options for recovery, so Fox can rinse and repeat bair to edgeguard easy.

-Neutral is interesting because while Fox's lasers don't have hitstun, Falcon can't ignore Fox if he is shooting them. Since Falcon's approaches are very linear, Fox can outspace a predictable approach and lead into a combo. The lasers still rack up some damage, as weak as they are.
-Falcon is faster than Fox, so if Fox tries to outspace with DD->grab or something Falcon can easily overshoot his target and Fox won't be fast enough to run away (this happens to me a lot in this matchup in the main games -_-)
-Overall Fox can run around and wait to catch Falcon in his DD, and can opt for a pressure based neutral (hoping to quickly get up in Falcon's grill and mess him up), or shoot lasers to force Falcon to make a risky move.

Great analysis.

The main caveat is that Fox can beat every character in the game (except for MAYBE the top 3 characters) as long as he doesn't get constantly opened up. Then again, every character in the game can also beat him due to his main weakness.
This part kinda reminds of how he is kinda viewed in PM right now or last patches.

Might seem random, but I gotta explain something first b4 you see how good this is. Every character has 4 frames of landing lag when they land normally. Aerials tend to have the same landing lag or more. Some aerials have auto-cancel frames, meaning there is NO landing lag. AC frames (when they exist) are at the VERY beginning and/or end of a move. Now for the Fox part: Fox's nair AC before and after the Hitbox comes out. Then, if you land during the move, he only has 3 frames on landlag instead of 4 or more. So, if you want to speed up your game an extra frame or 3, just make sure you land with a nair or press A just before landing (to get AC frames), at the worst it's guaranteed to be faster than landing normally.