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Tails 
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Try in training mode, 1/4 speed. It's before tails gets out of the ball.

You can also do it with SH downB and holding jump after you release.

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:34 am
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Thanks :)

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Credit to Sachamel and Saikyoshi for the pic.

Beginner alert :p Learning how to play Tails


Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:36 am
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Paturages' wrote:
I'm a brand new player of SSF2, so I don't actually have much insight regarding previous versions. I suppose I'll try to contribute anyway but take my input with a grain of salt.

For now, I'm absolutely loving his mobility: changing directions in mid-air with side-b or even down-b, horizontal momentum with bair, multiple double jumps, and I'm sure you can use the neutral-b momentum somehow in mixups.

Aerials are fun to use, with fair and uair being favorites. Dair being a meteor/spike is definitely satisfying (although it requires a bit of skill to actually land it) and bair has good KO power. Not much love for nair though, but you can probably use it in SHFFLs (well... just SHFFs here) at low %s to approach.

I find his smashes pretty subpar though. Rarely ever finding myself using them, especially when utilt has a better reach than usmash. Fsmash seems kinda short to me. Haven't explored dsmash much but the lag is discouraging.

Dtilt is a good for combo initiating. I often find myself doing 1 hit with side-b, dtilt, then whatever aerial fits the best. Utilt? Most of the time I prefer uair-ing, but it can be used I guess. Ftilt I can't actually use in a practical way because of my controller setup but it does have some knockback power. I'm more keen on using Dtilt, short hop, fair to achieve more or less similar results as the ftilt.

Projectile neutral-b, I have to learn how to actually use it in a match, but you can shoot towards your opponent and dash aggressively into the ball to approach I suppose. Aerial neutral-b could be cool for edgeguarding towards below.

Down-b is meh, but I could find myself using it in mixups. I've heard it got nerfed, so oh well. :(

I have yet to try anything against actual players though, and my knowledge of the SSF2 roster's abilities is pretty low, so I don't actually know how Tails would fare in matchups. But I'm sort of counting on his mobility for "mindgames" in future online play, we'll see how it goes.

Hint for how to use Neutral B: It's meant to be an anti-shield. Its direct hits are very weak, but it takes a massive chunk out of shields. Approaching behind it forces opponents to risk leaving themselves open for attack.

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:18 pm
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here's a brief summary of tails differences with his DownB...and some more tech info, for those who are tryna learn....
YouTube Video:

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Tails tech vid: Those ATs man
YouTube Video:

GM



Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:12 pm
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After seeing that video I can understand the nerfs a bit more now.

I hope the developers see it and edit him in a patch. I just hope they keep him easy to play. So yeah... Please fix Tails if possible to some degree.

But I hope you can make him fun to play and more accessible than in 0.9a where you couldn't even approach your opponent and fight. Like some balance where he isn't broken, but not too hard but not so nerfed where options are missing.

Of course I am saying this with just a statement of my opinion not a order or anything. :)

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Beginner alert :p Learning how to play Tails


Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:17 am
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I kinda agree with that.

+1

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Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:22 am
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So apparently the F air hitstun has improved.

To the experts out there do you know any other differences in this patch for Tails?

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Beginner alert :p Learning how to play Tails


Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:09 am
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Thanks for all the insights, this is really helpful.

This wavedash can probably be interesting in pretty wacky edgeguards, and this is also adding to his already stellar mobility. Also one way to exploit stages with platforms to approach with aerials. It's too bad that pre-9.0b down-b cancels were stripped off, but I think it would have made Tails quite a bit OP indeed. As an attack, I find down-b too punishable, but you can throw it around in a combo if you're confident.

Neutral-B also knocks opponents towards Tails, so it's a good combo initiator when it hits. The shield damage is something definitely not to be trifled with.

I forgot to mention dash attack, which is good for getting yourself off a situation. The lag is so punishable though... Also, grabs. Feel free to toss them in to initiate combos. I think you can chaingrab with back throw at low %s, forward throw is a semi-strong one that's useful to get people off the stage at high %s, up/down throw to combo through. Also, you can move during up throw. No Kirbyside-style suicides though.

Experimenting a bit with CPUs, I have a few things to add to my previous comment:
- You're bound to get punished if you don't hit side-b with the tip of the foot.
- Dair is actually about as hard to land as Melee Marth's dair, which is admittedly not that hard. Still gotta be somewhat precise in the approach though.
- Uair knocks further up than utilt and is generally better for juggling.

I didn't notice much else about Tails in this patch. Works pretty much the same to me.

Edit: Currently fiddling around with short hop - turnaround side b - bair. Not sure how fast one can pull that off.

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Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:46 am
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Paturages' wrote:
Thanks for all the insights, this is really helpful.

This wavedash can probably be interesting in pretty wacky edgeguards, and this is also adding to his already stellar mobility. Also one way to exploit stages with platforms to approach with aerials. It's too bad that pre-9.0b down-b cancels were stripped off, but I think it would have made Tails quite a bit OP indeed. As an attack, I find down-b too punishable, but you can throw it around in a combo if you're confident.

well tails in the previous demo had no safe approaches (except Dtilt & and aerial FF SideB, which were a bit risky as well). so the cancels were important to his neutral game as downB opened up more approach options. those options weren't safe but they were vast and threatening, so you could apply various mixups to fool the opponent into defending the wrong thing by bailing DownB and baiting.

Tails in this demo is pretty much the same, however his attacks properties are way better,(outside of DownB) and his defensive options are more viable... his neutral B is much harder to punish and he actually have more kill options. So his punishment game has been enhanced but DownB has nearly no use outside of recovery, (well it can K.O. now at high percents also)


Neutral-B also knocks opponents towards Tails, so it's a good combo initiator when it hits. The shield damage is something definitely not to be trifled with.

Neutral B knocks the opponent up, the cpu tends to DI inward

I forgot to mention dash attack, which is good for getting yourself off a situation. The lag is so punishable though... Also, grabs. Feel free to toss them in to initiate combos. I think you can chaingrab with back throw at low %s, forward throw is a semi-strong one that's useful to get people off the stage at high %s, up/down throw to combo through. Also, you can move during up throw. No Kirbyside-style suicides though.

yeah dash attacks are always punishable, but here's a fun fact - Dash attack has two hitbox variations, one which send the opponent backwards (located at the front of the ball) and another that sends the opponent forward (located at the back of the ball). It's easier to land the second hitbox if your opponent is air bound, and the hitstun almost always allows for a Dair followup if you get the opponent offstage.

Upthrow is cool now for positioning although It's only half as useful as it was previously, every UAir in this game acts the same meaning Tails can kill with Upthrow > UAir. and you can chain grab Fastfallers with downthrow now, which is a plus.


Experimenting a bit with CPUs, I have a few things to add to my previous comment:
- You're bound to get punished if you don't hit side-b with the tip of the foot.
- Dair is actually about as hard to land as Melee Marth's dair, which is admittedly not that hard. Still gotta be somewhat precise in the approach though.
- Uair knocks further up than utilt and is generally better for juggling.

SideB must always be canceled into an aerial or into the ground for a tilt, otherwise DI makes it always punishabe

I didn't notice much else about Tails in this patch. Works pretty much the same to me.

Edit: Currently fiddling around with short hop - turnaround side b - bair. Not sure how fast one can pull that off.
Bair has a lot of startup so, not very fast, but the combo works under various conditions.


just some tips.

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Tails tech vid: Those ATs man
YouTube Video:

GM



Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:34 pm
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Thanks for the tips ;)

Of course I need to get to this level but this still sounds useful xD.

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Beginner alert :p Learning how to play Tails


Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:42 pm
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GreaterMaelstrom wrote:
defensive...
Keep away with Fair and abuse his projectile..
NO rushdown....no mindgames.... tails have to play reeeaaally defensive this time around.
He can still punish OK but he can't really force them like in the last demos... he's almost a completely new character.


Not true, he's just more of a aggressive aerial fighter now.

Pros:
Excellent at juggling and chasing opponents in the air (uair was speed up and no longer has startup lag).
Resistant to juggles and most combo's himself (dair and fair are fast enough to interrupt opponent strings).
One of the best air speeds (if not the best) in the game.
^ Helps with camping. ^
EXTREMELY useful specials.
^ Projectile is win (faster, plus helps with recovery to a certain degree). ^
Fast attacks.
Fast mobility.
Amazing horizontal recovery.
^ Bair assist recovery. ^
TAILSDASH.
Decent vertical endurance for a lightweight.
Best used for outmaneuvering opponents in the air.

Cons:

Attacks deal low hitstun, (THIS NEEDS FIXED ASAP).
Short ranged.
Fair and dair only do so much for combo protection.
Poor horizontal endurance.
Below average vertical recovery for a character with multiple jumps.
Can have trouble landing kills.
Over reliant on side special for extending combo's outside of juggles.

Tails is weird.
He's not a bad character, but needs better combo tools. His old dair's hitstun would be nice.

Also, HE REALLY NEEDS MORE HITSTUN IN HIS ATTACKS.

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Last edited by gEmssbguy13 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:29 pm
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something tells me you guys don't use sideb

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Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:34 pm
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Yeah...

Just thinking, that stage with the acid rain on the bottom platforms is easy for tails to camp with his great recovery and projectile...

Talking about the stage quickly, because it IS related to tails. The acid rain really takes away from your k.os as it counts as a Selfdestruct. Just mentioning...

8 K.os and everything. (4P LV.9 acid rain stage)

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Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:56 pm
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...stuff like this makes me wonder if the devs even play tails.

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Tails tech vid: Those ATs man
YouTube Video:

GM



Last edited by GreaterMaelstrom on Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:50 pm
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yeah, I see broken images and wonder what the devs are doing too


Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:52 pm
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