Can you dthrow chaingrab to a followup?

Njet. Besides, getting a grab should not happen... DK can just run over Chibi with no real counter possibilities. At least none I know.

Double post hype! Not my fault ppl dont post in here for two weeks...

Ive experimented with UTilt -> Run off platform into falling UAir, and it seems to work really well. For example, from the top BF platform, Chibi can UTilt and chase into a guaranteed UAir for the kill at ~120%. Idk if its useful, but hey, everything counts!

Got two questions as well:

1.) Ive heard many people saying that Chibi vs MK is even. How did you come to that? I dont see anything that Chibi has going for him.

2.) Im having trouble with the Zelda MU as she can literally Fair ANY move of mine minus UAir and Lazor, and I really struggle with approaching, comboing, recovery (Bair)... Just everything. Id rate this 30-70 for but I bet someone would like to argue otherwise.

IMO Chibi-MK is even or close for a couple of reasons. Firstly, MK actually has a pretty tough time getting in against SHFF aerials and laser, because he can't cancel out lasers with his attacks and Chibi actually has pretty good disjoints. Offstage, MK obviously has a big advantage, but I've found that because MK doesn't have the best aerial maneuverability and speed you can often recover fairly easily as long as you don't directly challenge MK's moves.

As far as punishes go, I think Chibi (surprisingly) wins. Sure, Chibi's punish game is incredibly lackluster, but what I think really takes the cake is Chibi's uair, which kills at 80% on almost every stage. Just one of these can change the match completely, and with MK's poor airspeed they're not as hard to come by as one might think, even though landing them through punishes is not easy. MK has a lot of guaranteed combos that don't actually depend on weight or falling speed (first two hits of fair -> first two hits of ftilt -> ftilt or grab, for example), and I've found (at least when I mained him) that MK's punish game is more or less the same against everyone.

That seems... logical

I dunno if someone hsa discussed this before, but I think I have discovered a small AT. Remember these Stuttersteps from everyones favorite Smash game aka Brawl? Chibi has one for his Dash Attack. Dash in one direction (pun not intended, I despise those guys), turn around and then press A after releasing the directional input. If done right, Chibi will turn around and Dash Attack, granting him a small boos in that direction. Im pretty sure this is universal for all chars (Kyoz wont let me test tho), but I still wanted to point that out.

@Chibi versus Meta Knight

MK has no reason to get hit by Uair. Chibi cannot combo into it and landing it raw is dream city, especially in this matchup. Why would MK put himself anywhere near Chibi's Uair when he can just empty cape away to safety? It doesn't matter if Uair takes stocks at 80% if it never hits. Even if Chibi somehow manages to land it once, it will rarely change the flow of the match like you say, Code Samurai, because Meta Knight wins every other aspect of the matchup by such a wide margin.

Chibi's disjoints are overrated. Why? Because each one of them is attached to an enormous amount of commitment, and even when they do land, Chibi will only get somewhere between 12-35% and no positional advantage for his trouble. Meta Knight, on the other hand, not only has the manoeuvrability necessary to dance around whatever Chibi throws out, but his own disjoints are safe, lightning-quick and they lead either into huge damage, great positioning or both. Lasers are also terribly overrated. They're mildly annoying, but they do negligable damage. I'm talking 1% for every laser after the first, which does a meager 3%. Not to mention that Chibi can't shoot up when airborn, which forces him to commit to grounded lasers if he wants to stop MK jumping in for free.

Chibi sucks at edgeguarding, that's just a fact. He has little to no off-stage presence depending on the matchup, and certainly none in this one, where he is put up against the best recovery in the game. Meta Knight, on the other hand, absolutely destroys Chibi off-stage. People generally suck at edgeguarding in SSF2 with a few exceptions among the really good players, but were the game to remain in its present state we would eventually see Meta Knight kill Chibi every time he goes off-stage. Chibi's recovery is garbage and Meta Knight especially has all the tools necessary to make sure little robot man never makes it back.

8-2 matchup in my opinion.

I can see how a more optimized MK would wreck Chibi offstage: I think if you got the hang of nairing the toothbrush (which requires pretty impeccable spacing if you want the strong hit but is definitely doable), and dairing up-B you could optimize and get near-100% conversions on edgeguarding (which I define as any time Chibi uses a recovery special offstage).

SHFF fair does not have a lot of commitment attached to it. MK's main tool for getting around disjoints (his fabulous initial grab) can be countered to some extent by grab because of how good it is at beating dash-dances (and tons of lasers as well), and trying to approach Chibi from above won't end well. Especially on stages with platforms, at least from my experience it's not easy to get in against lasers and grabs to break up dash-dancing and fairs and uairs to break up aerial approaches.

However, I stopped playing MK in tournaments a while ago and I have a pretty bad Chibi, so most of this is from a while back.

What do you guys think about these Chibi buffs?

A z-air: just seems like something he'd have.
A tether: also just seems like something he'd have.
Less start up lag on neutral special.
Give down special invincibility like Villager's in Smash 4.
Make his up special go higher and make it a kill move.
The ability to combo into up-air after an up-throw at low percents.

Just some buffs that I believe could help to improve/make Chibi's game play more interesting.

Also... What do you guys think about Chibi's MU with Peach? I played a guy called NinjaWarrior and his Peach with my Chibi, and I couldn't tell who was winning.

I like the ones except dspec invincibility and uspec KB buffs. KB buffs just seem like an added gotcha that doesn't actually help Chibi's fundamental problems like a lack of a punish game. Adding invincibility to a move is also a really scary way of balancing the game and is kinda lame IMO.

I would propose fixing Chibi's main problem: his awful punish game. Perhaps we can preserve his glass-cannon nature but give a little more cannon.

First thing is grab game: tone down KB growth on dthrow just a tad, make uthrow better as you suggested, and perhaps slightly buff overall KB on bthrow.

Next thing is aerials: dramatically reduce fair's knockback to slightly more than Marth's, give uair lower base KB but adjust the KB growth to preserve roughly the original kill percent (perhaps a small nerf to the KO percentage), give dair a little less lag, and give bair some serious power: don't make it a super good kill move, but make it powerful enough to kill offstage or set up for edgeguards.

Next is tilts: adjust dtilt's angle to go slightly behind Chibi and weaken it, keep ftilt as it is (maybe give it really good shield damage to give it a niche?), and weaken utilt so it sets up for more.

As far as smashes, I think Chibi's pretty alright, maybe small KB buffs.

Specials are more interesting. You could make uspec a kill move if it was meant to be a combo finisher as well as a recovery (like ZSS's up-B in Sm4sh or Shuttle Loop/Tornado in Brawl, or Wario's up-B in this game), but I don't think that'd work out, so I'd keep it the way it is (maybe buff the distance, but not too much, because I'd want to preserve the glass-cannon parts of Chibi). Toothbrush has the potential to really make Chibi's combo game unique, so I'd change it: reduce the startup, drastically reduce the endlag between brushes if you cancel the move (but don't actually give it a jump-cancel, just make it a movement tool by reducing the lag when you stop the move), perhaps make its hitbox a weak launcher as well, and increase the length of each brush stroke considerably. Try to make stuff like fair -> toothbrush -> uair a thing. Dspec is good IMO how it is. Lasers could get more hitstun (so you can't just run at Chibi like it's raining and still make it), and perhaps to make it more of a combo tool you could add an aerial stall effect?

Buff his initial dash to give him the speed to chase his opponents for combos and tech-chase as well.

The reason I wanted invincibility on down special is because it's a move that only applies to certain situations. Other than taunting down special is completely useless against characters without projectiles. I was thinking that this could just be some type of alternative spot dodge.

As for Chibi's down tilt I'd say increase the range or make it have the chance of stunning the opponent. I also think Chibi's needs a better dash attack.

Chibi's dash attack, if you hit the electric sweet spot, actually has a lot of knock back. Not usually enough to kill, but it has enough to get someone offstage.

His n-spec is really isn't practical to use downward in the air mostly impossible to land a hit, really should have less startup lag and more end lag instead to make that move more viable imo.

Zair is highly appreciated. Zoning tool and better recovery.

I honestly dont think that UThrow needs to be changed much, it already combos into UAir at kill % if you read if they DJ (which is the case 95% of the time). DThrow is the same isea, but you have to read DI as well and then go either for Bair or UAir, Nair works as well at lower %.

Pick Up with invincibility seems a bit pointless, he doesnt need it imo. Id prefer giving it a stall like Shine and/or being able to B Reverse it for some neat momentum tricks to mix up or rather bad landing game. Does anyone know by how much Pick Up increases % and KB of a projectile?

Up B as a kill move sounds neat, and I actually wanted that for a while, but he doesnt need it. Like Code said, it wouldnt make too much sense because he cant really combo into it.

Lazors are pretty bad atm. Not being able to angle it freely juts plain out sucks, and they dont have enough hitstun to be actually able to confirm into anything unless you get a Fox into falling down with Shine active or something like that. I wouldnt increase its damage output since its so spammable. What if you could fire it up immidiatly without angling by just pressing C Up/C Down for better angling?

Regarding tilts, DTilit just needs more range imo, but a better angle is good as well and I like the idea of FTilt eating shields. For UTilt tho Id just like to see less lag so you can combo better, the rest of the move is fine imo.

Only if you don't know how to use it. Lasers can jab reset, so if you see if your opponent misses his tech, rush in with a angled-down laser and do just that, then follow up with whatever applies with that situation you're in. And it's surprisingly ok at keeping you safe when landing back on stage. if your opponent is right below you just waiting to knock you back upwards again, shoot one to catch him off guard and then throw out an aerial afterwards (preferably nair).

Of course, you aren't completely safe, but it's better than nothing.

Decided to start maining chibi-robo, that's pretty much it.