oh okay
our balance is bad yet i see our "worst ranked" characters are just characters that nobody plays yet and our "top tiers" are the characters that have people piloting the character meta

*sips tea* but that's none of my business!!!!!!

can we get this thread back on track please ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. Sorry, I'll just leave Wario alone.

i wouldn't say that, but how can you make a matchup analysis against characters that people don't use?

The Wario/Tails matchup can be a matter of opinion. I lost to a wario because he sat back and only did bite and shoulder bashes. Most Wario's I meet will do this and the only thing Tails can do against it is photon cannon and uncharged spindash. All other attacks will be overridden. But if you take too long killing with attacks that aren't meant to kill at that low a percent, you'll get wafted.

There are only a few Tails overbearingly active Tails mains, but we would complain that this theory is incorrect and that Wario has the advantage. I'd give a couple, but certainly not most of these, a matter of opinion case based on how you use Wario. There's prolly a Tails Player out there that thinks the Wario/Tails matchup is 90/10 in favor of Tails simply because he's some sort of cheating little...........um, I mean he might simply have an easy time against Warios. I'd say these stats have a 10 point spread (statistics reference~) based on character usage, rather than the characters themselves.

This is how Slaypes and I used to battle. Some matchups in this game as they are are purely honor system.

Kinda sloppy, but here.

Just saw Wario on APEX stream. Not really feeling it, but I guess I'll go along with it.

You need to tell me what you saw! D:

I didn't get to see him on stream much, but I'll try to recall what I saw.

Nothing new from what I could tell. I think I saw Chomp's knockback increase, can't say for sure.

Dthrow a little weaker...?

A little worried as these are nerfs (albeit Dthrow nerf being small). If Chomp's set knockback is increased or was removed, there goes so much combo potential out the window.

there are no changes to wario on stream

Doof be trippin.

I've been playing a lot and thought about how Wario does compared to the cast, and it seems to me that he struggles against most characters. It really doesn't help when there aren't many (if any) other active Wario mains out there, and I really hope there isn't a good reason for it.

Since my feelings about each matchup before weren't agreed with, I really would like some help, so I don't sound like a dumbass (I probably already do). Right now I'm stuck in terms of improving, and with no other Wario mains in sight, there ain't much I can turn to.

Based on experience using Wario, I'll just list what I feel are very bad or are the worst:
- Kirby
- Jigglypuff
- Meta Knight
- Pikachu
- Black Mage
- Marth

Believe me, you don't sound like a dumbass.

What do you think makes Pika vs Wario bad?

Because Wario is such a weaving (ideally, not in reality due to him having his Brawl running speed AND 4 airspeed/airmobility), combo-based character, Pikachu is hard to KO because he's fast, rather small, and lightweight. Lightweight being an issue because Wario has almost no reliable KO moves and most of his combo setups send Pikachu too far away for his standard followups.

Wario also can't handle Thunder Jolts and speedy approaches at the same time without taking a risk. Say Pikachu uses a Thunder Jolt, and decides to rushdown Wario. Wario has a few options: Shield, Shield roll, Jump, defend with Bair, burst through Thunder Jolt and hope Pikachu runs into his Dash Attack or Shoulder Bash, or Power-Shield Thunder Jolt. There are a few problems though; Wario's OoS options either are too short-ranged (grab, Utilt, Usmash, Fair), or too slow to really defend himself (everything except Grab and Level 5 Wario Waft). Although Wario's shield roll is really good, Pikachu is fast enough to tech chase him. Bair is a great defense move, but Pikachu can catch Wario's landing lag. If Wario decides to try and Dash Attack or Shoulder Bash through, Pikachu can either Shield the attack or dodge it, and punish really hard due to both moves being very unsafe. Power-Shielding Thunder Jolt is Wario's only "safe" option, but his OoS options aren't fast enough to retaliate if Pikachu decides to rush in anyway, which means Wario can only Shield Roll away to stay safe. However, this sets up the whole situation all over again.

Quick Attack is the third issue for Wario in the matchup. In the neutral game, if Pikachu decides to Quick Attack around, Wario will have to be very careful and not end up getting hit by a Quick Attack-cancelled Smash Attack or Grab (Dsmash is another thing that annoys Wario). Also, Pikachu's quick movement while using Quick Attack basically prevents Wario from doing his intended playstyle of weaving around his foes.

Lastly, Wario's recovery is so mediocre that Pikachu can easily gimp him. Not just with aerials or grounded attacks, but Thunder as well. Because Wario has to follow a "set path" when trying to recover low, this encourages Pikachu to try and land an edgeguard Thunder. Most of the time, Wario will be guaranteed KOed; if the Thunder is smartly placed, Wario either gives up and KOs himself, or gives up and touches the Thunder.