I don't think [TSON] was implying Goku was bottom, or even low-Tier lol
He just said not S, and probably not A.

I know Tson most likely didn't mean to imply that Goku is low tier, but I'm using his statements to show the faults that Goku has as a character. And the things he had said in these posts are some of the main reason I believe Goku is a sh!tty character and it somewhat justifies why he's on this list.

#Gokulessthantrash

Vanilla Goku is too solid to be anything less than Mid/A-minus-tier. He definitely on par with Mario, Yoshi, Bomberman, or Sheik.

Every time I see a Goku player online, I just imagine that they just handed me approximately 3 buck to "get rid of them", and I do it easy, no matter how skilled they are with him.

It's a guaranteed butt whooping for them. As Tson stated "anyone who is fast and has a decent aerial game/momentous sideb can shut goku down if they keep in mind that he has KK". And to add to this list, I'd also include characters with decent anti-air.

And Zalo, as good of a player as you are, who has seen countless matches, do you honestly take any Goku serious enough to the point where you feel the need to go all out? (I mean I not saying that you won't have to put any effort in but going all out?)

I know I don't, do you?

#sorry2trashforcomparing2Goku

It should be the player and not the char when deciding to 'go all out'.

kirby vs falcon
holy s***
this is so infuriating
hard to combo cause floaty as f***, still somehow lives to 110% all the time cause nothing combos into knee at kill percents, and
YOU CAN'T f*** HIT HIM CAUSE HE'S SO SMALL
short hop nair goes straight over his head even when he isn't crouching!

also EZ gimperino for kirby cause it's falcon
also kirby's upB makes him difficult to edgeguard near the edge

70:30 at least

You forgot dtilt.

Captain Falcon can Combo Jab 1 into F-Smash or F-Air at around 70% for the KO, which helps him a bit.


Also, yeah, D-Tilt too ^_^

Well, all I can say is that I check back on this thread each day, and nothing new happens.

Shall I lock it?

There really is no need, it's just people aren't that interested in MUs like they were when this topic. First started.

I dont think anyone said Ness and Black Mage, right?



Oh the horror..

My Bomber's 3 worst match ups are Fox and Kirby and Wario. Fox can rush down BBM making bombs hard to accurately detonate, also Shine is very bad for Bomberman, especially offstage. Even at low % it can mean a gimped recovery. Utilt juggles are bad for BBM and can lead to uair KOs fairly early. Forces my BBM to rely on jab combo and shield grabs to slow Fox down which can be read and punished by smart players.

Kirby is short making fair harder to land accurately. Also Kirby's copy ability can lead to an instant utilt juggle on Bomber since he is a fastfaller and the utilt can lead into sh hammer. Hammer has great horizontal knockback and Bomber has horrible horizontal recovery. At the right angle or the right area of the stage it can lead to an early KO. Dash attack stops Bomber in his tracks and Up B gimps recovery for a nice spike KO almost guaranteed if timed correctly.

Wario has chomp over edge to gimp recover and great juggles. Also chomp release over edge to fart murders BBM. Even if fart is minimally charged. That's all he needs.

In the end, anyone that can juggle and hit hard after it will be a real problem for Bomberman. Anyone with a good enough recovery to go deep and gimp his recovery (Like Kirby) will also be a problem. He has a hard recovery life but since smart players are so confident about punishing his recovery, you can make it look like you're about to obviously fall one way then abruptly change directions. It can really throw them off and lead you to a safe landing. He is very... loose... in the air. You can change his momentum easily. Use it to your advantage BBMs!

DK > Sora:
I would go as far to say this is unwinnable.
Sora's lack of kill power hurts him because DK is so heavy. His U-Smash uncharged kills Mario on Dreamland at 140%, so it will increase on any stage due to DKs Weight. His Side Smash is less reliable because DK's main recovery is horizontal and Sora has no meteor, so no easy gimps.
Sora's combo game doesn't do him much good because he has to rely on poor/no DI to finish a combo with a KO. His recovery is beaten by DK both in distance and the fact that DK has a lot of meteors. (Both Side-B and Up-B). Sora himself is light and DK can kill him really easily.
Sora can gimp him, but it's difficult due to no meteors and a bad recovery.

TL:DR version; Sora has little to no safe options against DK, a character who bests him in pretty much everything except combo game.

How to make this easier: Don't pick Sora.

Nah. DK will easily eat 50% from first hit. Usmash windbox edgeguards Spinning Kong as well as Thunder. The Keyblade is small, but it does give Sora some range against DK to get in: dash-dance to SH nair is a powerful approach option.

Sora is hurt by the fact that he can't KO DK out of combo moves, but getting DK offstage will give Sora the ability to land his two main finishers, fsmash and usmash. Still bad for Sora, but not anything really bad: I say maybe 40-60 or 35-65.

Ok, changed the thread title and removed the poll.
Continue discussion.