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Ichigo 
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TheCodeSamurai wrote:
I played DK pretty solidly in v0.9a, but he had serious weaknesses. His recovery was far worse than it is now because from any sort of horizontal trajectory he had no room to mix it up: he just had to go as far as he good and pray that they would miss their punish. He had a tougher time than he even does now getting around projectiles and disjoints. His Punch, his main killing option, was worse. Notably, however, it's also the fact that the other characters were better at beating him. The Sora matchup was insane due to chaingrabs, the Jiggz matchup was a flurry of anything -> Rest to kill at 30%, the Sonic matchup was DK trying in vain to hit the swirling mass of Light Dashes and combos that would attack him, a lot of characters had serious chaingrabs and performable zero-deaths, and in general everyone just comboed him into oblivion. He had good range, a good chaingrab, and a decent grab overall, and decent kill power. Nothing else was really good.


1, his MU's aren't that bad. Heck, you probably don't know what you're talking about in that area due to no real players to play with at the time (nether did I). Not here to judge, but it's really not as bad as most think.
2, Define, solid.

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Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:27 pm
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1) Samurai was talking about past DK
2) why is this post about DK in the Ichigo topic? Lol

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Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:43 pm
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DK is top tier IMO in this version, but in the last version he was awful.
@Starkiller2: Ichigo -> balance -> DK in v0.9a -> DK discussion

Back on topic. I think that Ichigo has one of the better neutral games. Just jumping can be really dangerous, because his pseudo-wavedash utilt can cover a lot of ground quickly, and he can just do empty short hops to a lot of characters and really limit their options. Definitely a solid mid tier or better: he has really good matchups against those who he outranges, and decent matchups against a lot of other people. The only chars IMO that have winning matchups against him are characters that can combo him and have range (DK, Marth, Sora somewhat, chars with good projectiles) and some of the characters with better projectile zoning games: BM, Samus, Megaman, Link, etc.

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Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:54 pm
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TacThree wrote:
Sorabotics wrote:
@TSONTAC3 Since you have good knowledge of the whole roster, how would you deal with the Peach vs Ichigo MU? Floating above and out of range doesn't work because, you may avoid the side-b, but then Ichigos just U-tilt. And you can't zone them with turnips from float or on a platform because he can "block" turnips with f-tilt, jab, or side-b past it. If you're ever on a platform above him, U-tilt or U-air catches you, and if you shield and come back to around stage level, he can just side-b>u-tilt again. You can't approach him directly unless you knock him down and go for the tech chase because his range can easily intercept Peach's float cancel aerials and most certainly her ground options.

your best option is to bait out the side special or other moves (since Ichigo has a bunch of end-lag on most of his moves) and then punish while he's in lag.
although, some punishes might feel like you have to act frame perfectly (a tiny bit of an exaggeration, but close enough)

EDIT: oops, forgot to mention that turnips and floating in general are insanely important in this MU
like, specifically floating at the right height for Side-special to pass underneath you and miss as you float toward Ichigo's departure point and then fade back toward his entry point (maybe waiting for an up-tilt if the player seems to be doing that frequently after side special), and then hitting with a b-air or n-air
or you can float higher than his up-tilt can reach, have a turnip with you, and drop it using the grab key and letting it hit Ichigo at his entry point (even if he up-tilts it, the turnip is still an active attackbox until it dies when it touches the floor, so it'll still be above him) you can use it as cover as you descend toward him and punish with an aerial.


Yeah, I've been doing that, but timing that in online mode is so difficult. And floating out of Side-spec range, even if U-tilt also misses, he can SH Fair. Not that those don't have lag, but the range walls Peach out. I will definitely try dropping turnips. However, despite the turnip still having the active hitbox after being deflected, Ichigo can just roll away and U-air or Side-Spec away. Nothing against your analysis at all, but it seems the only way to beat Ichigo is to play a weak to moderate neutral game, hope he doesn't tech your aerial attack, then tech chase. But its so hard, thank you for the advice though


Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:27 am
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People keep talking about end lag on Ichi's moves, but I defy anyone to tell me the punish window on side B>u tilt isn't tiny, especially factoring in the range of those moves. I can usually get in there with Sheik and tech chase to death, but with a floatier char I imagine it being extremely difficult.

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Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:51 am
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sparty88 wrote:
People keep talking about end lag on Ichi's moves, but I defy anyone to tell me the punish window on side B>u tilt isn't tiny, especially factoring in the range of those moves. I can usually get in there with Sheik and tech chase to death, but with a floatier char I imagine it being extremely difficult.


^^This


Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:26 pm
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Ichigo pretty much owns floaties and short ranged characters because of this. He's also no slouch against big characters. Heck, Donkey Kong is basically his own personal punching bag all the time. I can't find one DK that has beat my Ichigo.

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Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:56 pm
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Utilt is amazing. But a lot of his moves are laggy. Nair, bair, dair, uair, all smashes, ftilt, dtilt, neutral B, and side B to some extent are all punishable in ending lag or in starting lag. They aren't always punishable, but they aren't free either: all of these moves require some commitment.

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Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:43 pm
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TheCodeSamurai wrote:
Utilt is amazing. But a lot of his moves are laggy. Nair, bair, dair, uair, all smashes, ftilt, dtilt, neutral B, and side B to some extent are all punishable in ending lag or in starting lag. They aren't always punishable, but they aren't free either: all of these moves require some commitment.


Ain't that bad. I find it easy to land alot of these moves actually, minus the smashes. Don't forget all those moves provide a good degree of priority against alot of characters.

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Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:49 am
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I've been getting into side b matches a lot lately. Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. They're actually decently fun though.

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Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:00 am
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AfroWarrior wrote:
I've been getting into side b matches a lot lately. Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. They're actually decently fun though.


Ichi vs Ichi right?

Yeah, those are fun. Interesting how the results turn out when everyone starts trying side b>utilt
:xd:

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Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:02 am
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Hey I'm not the type to complain or try to change things that are already wonderful... but It has come to my attention that Ichigo needs to be nerfed. Now bear in mind Ichigo's current version is good when players chose to avoid spamming to take away from the game's enjoyement. However I seem to have come across a little problem with this character, I was playing against a player who had utilize Ichigo's D-Special and S-Special to create this unavoidable, chaotic and controlled combo which forces you unable to do anything. We already know that Ichigo's D-Special stuns a near by player to be able to do that sword fall he does and this combined with the unrelenting pressure of his S-Special... is just mind-blowing! I suggest you look into this, just so Ichigo can become a more enjoyable character for everyone.

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Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:49 pm
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I really don't find any problem with down special. Also after playing some matches his side special doesn't seem that broken as I originally thought, at least in stages with platforms (haven't played in FD/3DS). As someone said earlier you just have to keep in mind that Ichigo has this attack at his disposal so you shouldn't be throwing attacks randomly since he can punish you easily with it. In fact try to bait him to do sidespec to punish Ichigo instead (if they spam it it's even easier). As a nerf I'd say just give it a tad more lag at the end (tho this move is being adressed already so nobody should worry anymore)

The attack I'm having most trouble against tho is his grounded Up B, specially with Jiggs. Since he has this wind effect there's no way for a short ranged fighter to punish this attack and has minimum lag too. In the Puff MU if Ichigo does this attack there's no other option but to reset to neutral, she has no options against it. Thouhgts?

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Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:27 pm
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Sachamel wrote:
The attack I'm having most trouble against tho is his grounded Up B, specially with Jiggs. Since he has this wind effect there's no way for a short ranged fighter to punish this attack and has minimum lag too. In the Puff MU if Ichigo does this attack there's no other option but to reset to neutral, she has no options against it. Thouhgts?


With Jigglypuff specifically, best hope is to land a reasonably charged (so around half charge) Rollout (N-spec), It surprisingly works against Ichigo's U-spec, and make sure you're on the ground, not in the air when you try to bowl him over.

EDIT~ Though you might get sent up with Ichigo after this. AND depending on Ichigo's % you might also get countered, but to the best of my knowledge, Rollout is probably the only counter to Ichigo's U-spec with Jigglypuff.

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Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:20 am
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IMO Ichigo, kind of like DK, hard counters a fair percentage of the cast: the puffballs and other floaties or chars that lack range have a really tough time unless they have a really good combo game to compensate. But I think against the rest of the cast, Ichigo is nothing special. He has range, but he gets comboed easily and has a bad recovery, and a lot of the top tiers IMO beat him (won't say who those are, but oh well). I think he's high tier, and definitely a good character to secondary because of the ability to avoid floaty MU's. Ichigo and a character that does well against heavies would in my opinion be a really good team.

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Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:39 pm
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