Religion is so massive I feel weird making something.

I'll do the Zyelar Religion soon^TM and I might also throw in an Eldritch Abomination Cult for KP. I have an idea or two for some of the 12 deities, but it feels kind of weird throwing seasonings in a pot when you're not the chief...

Same.

That was the whole point of this thing though. We were all supposed to work together to create these religions and cultures, we weren't supposed to be just making them on our own and without input.

Well nobody seems to feel like doing that, so maybe something isn't working here? Everyone appreciates the time and effort you and Kiki have been putting into this project, but I'm going to be frank, the monolithic pile of information you've put together is very intimidating. I hate to say this, and I don't think this is anyone's fault, but the approach that's being taken here seems broken. Otherwise, more people would be contributing. The "too many cooks" mentality might have something to do with it, or maybe not. Personally, I think we need to have a nice, long discussion about how to move forward. I know I am probably the least worthy person to be saying anything since I have participated very little since the project began, probably less than anyone else, being largely content to sit back and wait for other people to do the work until it was time to kick this thing off. This project started over six months ago, and since then, I have lost sight of the collaborative effort this is supposed to be. But while I don't have a solution to everything, or anything, I want to let everyone know I'm onboard. At the risk of being seen as a self-righteous prick, an overly sentimental dweeb, or both, I want to see this project succeed and thrive.

Or I could be way off the mark. Either way, that's enough making an idiot of myself for one day.

The following post is rated [SB] for Scatterbrained. It may contain sharp tone shifts, unintentional implied accusations (which truly aren't there), and being all over the place because the author knows nothing about being coherent in long posts and kept adding to it and revising it every ten seconds. Reader discretion advised.


Unfortunately that's not what happened.

See that's kinda the deal, when we started everything was up for discussion from the shape of the world to how much magic was magical enough. Then suddenly we all had to start coming up with individual stuff throwing in any small references we thought we could make to the things that already existed in that same vein, without the things we referenced knowing and referencing back and without knowing what else would happen. I don't know why we did, but I believe it was because somewhere a signal got crossed and it was either stated or implied it would be easier if we all did separate cultures (*note easier doesn't always mean better, but human nature and all that). TBH we should have ALL worked on EACH culture together at the same time, so they could all make sense together in whatever sort of 'timeline' we are unintentionally creating.

That's one reason Kiki's culture's are so fluent and interconnected (in addition to her superb writing skills), not only did a lot get created at the end of it all, so she had everything else to work with, but she also knew everything about each of those last set of cultures ahead of time, INCLUDING the if/how they could/would meet. But still, if you pay close attention very little of that interconnectivity is actually with any culture that isn't a "Kiki" culture.

So yeah, in retrospect I feel a lot was lost when we created "our" cultures individually, because, like it or not, and whether they are aware of it or not, a lot of us seem to be avoiding "the cultures of others", because that is indeed what they are. Just like any character, only the creator can really know what would be IC and OoC for each culture, and while outsiders can make logical guesses, they have a habit of avoiding that if possible because it's not really "theirs" to do so even though everyone in the thread is essentially agreeing to a free use license. To where as, if we all discussed each culture all at once, agreed on certain physical traits, ideology, etc, etc, then divided up the work of organization and adding minor details between us, then after we were all done, we rinsed and repeated, we would have a more interconnected world already and everyone would truly feel they each owned a piece of everything. Culture creation should not have stopped at "well everyone posted some cultures" good job high fives- lots of peer review and revision should have been made to each, and then things like the various religions would have grown naturally. Lists and formats should have only come into the picture after all the information was there and just needed to be organized.

I mean technically it's not to late to try to do that, but I did say I had ideas to go with what we had and what Kiki was doing... so if anyone I don't think I needed to be reminded on what this is, I just know the difference between what this is ideally and what this is becoming in actuality. But all things in retrospect.

1 MIN EDIT: fixed a comma and some whole words being the completely wrong one.

The idea was that you would post a culture and talk about it with others, everyone would give input and edit it. No one did that, in fact only me and whim did that because we talk to each other outside of MG. This was never meant to turn into *post culture, be done* but no one was making cultures so Kiki picked up the pace and made them for us. On top of that the cultures still aren't finished. What we made were outlines, the outlines can change and things can be added at anytime.

If people had ideas for cultures they could have came in here and said something and we could have talked it out, but instead everyone just avoided the topic so I just figured that no one wanted to make a culture. Also, I don't really understand this "I don't want to work on someone else's culture/religion" mentality. For instance, I liked Whim's Katyann culture, so I made a religion based specifically around it without talking to him about it. I still haven't talked to him about it and I don't know whether he even likes it or not, but that's the point. The religion isn't final, if he wants something else there or wants to add something else we should be able to talk it out and change things. Everyone has just been avoiding each other so far and forcing Kiki to just make s*** on her own.

Honestly I feel like if I would have taken a portion of the map and cut it into a shape and asked "Hey, what does everyone think should go here?" it would have turned out the same way. Kiki would have ended up being the only person giving input, which is exactly why I went with that template idea instead- oh, I actually didn't even decide to use that template, it just so happens no one posted an alternative when I asked for ideas on how to approach cultures so Kiki and Whim just went with it because no one else was giving feedback.

Deci has a point, though if this entire process has shown me anything, not much would have changed otherwise. Deci, Whim, Ichigo and I, have solely been the only individuals willing to contribute anything after we finished discussing magic. Everyone else has either been too tired/lazy/scared of the work that this entails. Yes, there is a monolithic amount of information, but that comes with creating an entire world from the ground up. Really, it is only going to get even larger and larger as we establish nations, cities, locations of interest, etc.

TL;DR: There's going to be a lot to read. Get used to it.

Now, regarding collaboration, I have plenty to say. What Ichigo says is exactly what this was supposed to be, but that whole culture thing ended up with me having to create TWELVE different cultures (3 kinda 4 of them being glorified subcultures). My original intention was only for Alyria, that was all. Yet, barely anyone felt compelled to contribute anything. Those who said they were going to do something, fell through. I asked if anyone wanted to create the dominate culture. No response. No one touched the South. No one touched those freaking islands, (which is why they're all more or less one culture). After all that I had to do the stupid North too.

I honestly don't even know if anyone read any of them besides Ichigo and Deci. No one offered anything, not even a "hey, what if this group existed in the south, what if these people were awesome cooks, what if the Hararans smoked dried fruits, hey, what if the Alyrians built cities out of crystals, " Nothing.

TL;DR: I made cultures because no one else would, not because I wanted to.

I had to weave everything together circumstantially, it had nothing to do with me having an idea ahead of time. If something happened in one culture, I went back and edited what was written in another culture to show the reaction and relation. This could have been done by ANYONE and their culture as well. Whim had the Norther Katyans affected by the Marosians. I had the Hararans affected by that impossibly long named desert horde, and neighbours to the Akkadites. Weaving does not require one person to make sure that everything clicks in place.

TL;DR: Everything works because I had to go back and edit things so that they fit together. On multiple occasions.

Ok, whatever. Culture was stressful, we're in religion now, we're moving forward! Alright, we're talking about a Greco-Roman pantheon for Maros, awesome! Cool, Deci had a great idea for the Yarlindish religion with the great white elk! Alright we have some background info we can draw from the cultures to help with religions. Great, I put a super rough draft together for the Marosian pantheon so we can move forward on that, I even left lots of places for people to throw in lore and gods and stuff! Yay collaboration! Oh wait, that was weeks ago.

So then, Ichigo and I are left freaking hanging in limbo, waiting for something, and seeing nothing.

TL;DR: Honestly, no one should be complaining about collaboration or the lack thereof, when no one has even BOTHERED trying to collaborate.

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Now, in testimony of the spirit of collaboration, I pose this question in regards to the religion presented by Ichigo. What are their sentiments on magic? Use it? Don't use it? Do they specialize in healing magics?

Also,

Name:The Oracular Sect
Summary:The cult of The Nameless Ones is a religion largely revolving around the interactions of The Oracle and omnipotent spirits that are solely referred to as The Nameless Ones. The vague nature of these spirits makes them quite relatable to many of the deities of the realm. This, in part, is why individuals from different religions and creeds seek the divine words of The Oracle, as they can be interpreted as having come from their god. Conversely however, this vagueness makes this religion difficult establish set principles which prevents it from becoming a major religion outside of the Southeastern Isles: Ellsaros, Ethaldos, and Arellos.
History: The Cult of the Nameless Ones formed upon the acknowledgement of a young woman, Tris, as having been chosen by the gods as their oracle. Initially, the scope of this cult resided on the island of Ellsaros, which soon began to flourish under her wisdom. However, as word spread to the neighbouring islands of Arellos and Ethaldos, they came to depend on the Oracle's wisdom when their islands fell into crisis. It is through these crises that the Oracle has been accredited with the wind singing of the Arelli, and the ironwood forests of the Ethaldi. Through her wisdom, she guided the three islands into eras of prosperity, which is why these peoples continue to revere the Oracle today. The successive oracles, all reincarnated from the original, further established the religion, shaping it into its present state.

As the cult flourished, it began to be spread by the Arelli sailors who had made contact with the mainland. The evidence of their prosperity, made the wisdom of the oracle enticing to the peoples who sought riches, and glory. While they could not understand the font of wisdom and power supporting the Oracle, they knew that the Oracle had a direct link to divinity and thus came to be known and revered throughout many lands. At the behest of the oracle wishing the Ethaldi to see the world in which they lived, pilgrimages throughout the realm have become a rite of passage for many young adults.

There have been 18 oracles over the span of a little over 1,400 years: Tris (f), Ingris (f), Masir (m), Cerandis (f), Arris (f), Melandis (f), Farris (f), Elasir (m), Gemavir (m), Ellsavvallis (f), Amphoris (f), Ariandellis (f), Torvir (m), Eliandellis (f), Attrellis (f), Ingris (f) Ithrandir (m), and Andrellis (f). The nineteenth, and present reigning oracle is a young girl by the name of Miandellis.
Guiding Principles:
The Nameless Ones are everything, and nothing; they are the known and unknown; they are many and one.
The Oracle alone is the divine tool of The Nameless Ones, through the Oracle's will is the will of The Nameless Ones.
The Oracle is immortal through reincarnation, and the reincarnation is proved through the four sacred tests of choosing.
The Oracle is always of Ellsari blood, often a woman, but may also be born a man.
The Ellsari are the servants of the Oracle, though disciples of foreign blood may live on Ellsaros.
The act of altruism is the highest calling of man, and mercy ought to be granted to all who seek it.
The act of drawing blood is only fit to fulfill an act of altruism or showing mercy. Therefore, Ellsari are all vegetarian.
Holy Texts/Lore:
The Book of Prophecy - A book written by the first Oracle, Tris. It details events that have happened, and that will happen, though they are quite cryptic and difficult to understand.
The Oracular Archive – A collection of books detailing the lives of the Oracles.
Holy Sites: Trisor - Trisor is built in place of the village where Oracle Tris is said to have been born. It was built during the later years of Oracle Tris, through a joint effort of the Ellsari, Ethaldi, and Arelli. In essence, it is a religious commune where Ellsari monks and the Oracle live.

Trisor is a collection of identical buildings with smooth walls of stone painted an alabaster white. There are three buildings where the Ellsari monks live, study, and work. The fourth building, The Palace of Whispers, is the most magnificent, and is where the Oracle lives. It has no outer walls, as the Oracle wishes to remain in contact with the people, and it is largely assumed that the Oracle is powerful enough to defend themselves in a time of trouble. The Palace of Whispers is where the temple dedicated to the Nameless Ones is located, as well as the audience chamber where the Oracle speaks officially and meets with individuals seeking wisdom. It is also where the library is located containing books from all over the world, brought back by Ellsari pilgrims and those that have been written by the oracles themselves.
Religious Personnel: A small hierarchy does exist within this cult. The Oracle represents the Nameless Ones, and thus leads the religion. Beneath the Oracle is the Grand Speaker, who acts in the Oracle's stead during the period when the oracle has passed on to a new life. The Grand Speaker conducts the Tests of Choosing, which determines whether a child is the next oracle. Upon the ascension of the new oracle, the Grand Speaker steps down and serves as the right hand to the Oracle. Beneath the Grand Speaker are the rest of the Ellsari monks, they all have various duties and responsibilities, serving the Oracle in various ways; whether through cooking a meal, or healing an individual. Acolytes serve the Ellsari monks and are often of foreign blood, seeking to serve the Oracle.
Centre of Influence:Trisor, Ellsaros. The Southern Isles: Arellos, Ethaldos
Festivals/Ceremonies:
The Tests of Choosing – Conducted by the Grand Speaker 3 years after the Oracle's passing, all the children born in the year of the Oracle's death are brought to the temple at the Palace of Whispers and go through a series of tests to determine whether they are the Oracle's reincarnation. The Test of Patience has the child presented with a plethora of jewels and gems, if the child selects the Stone of Ingris, an azure stone that was worn by the oracle throughout her life, then it is the first sign that they may be the Oracle. The Test of Will has the child sing an Arelli spellsong to conjure forth a wind, if the child is successful then that is the second sign that they may be the oracle. The Test of Marvel has the child plant an ironwood seed into the Oracle's garden, and then they must make it sprout instantaneously through the powers provided by The Nameless Ones. The last test, The Test of Silence requires the child to use the memories of their past life, and the voices of the Nameless Ones, to guide them to the Heart of Ellsaros, a ring that belonged to Oracle Tris hidden within the Palace of Whispers. Upon passing these tests, the new Oracle is declared.
The Ascension – After 7 – 10 years of studying, the Oracle officially reclaims their position as Head of State and Divine Speaker of The Nameless Ones. Feasts are held for a week on the island of Ellsaros, culminating in an elaborate ceremony on the last day of the week. The ceremony is attended by Ellsari, Ethaldi and Arelli officials, as well as foreign dignitaries.
<Insert Ring Ceremony Name Here> - On the night of a full moon, the Oracle gives all monks who are about to begin their pilgrimage into the world are given a silver ring. It shows the world that the individual belongs to the Oracular Sect, and are protected by the Oracle.
Symbol: A silver circle
Deities:The Nameless Ones

Re: Religions



Alright, so my thoughts:

Purple is the duodecos, I'm partially unsure if I want it to be spread all the way to Istaria as well, or have it have its own separate religion since it's far enough that one could form. OR they could also follow the Oracle in the southern isles.

Red is the oracular sect. There's nothing much to change. Trisor is located on the coast of Ellsaros for Ichigo's map purposes.

Light Green is proposed region for Mama Kroha, though I feel the region could also be made smaller and another region could form.

Orange is that small violent volcano god cult, mentioned in the Tohsian description

Teal in the north is the anthropomorphic version of the duodecos cult that we were talking about earlier.

Beside them is the Great White Elk thing we mentioned before

Dark pink is the Zyelar religion.

Also, what I think is worth bringing up, is that since religions are more malleable, should we put areas on maps where both religions are dominant kind of like the two colours ///// crossing over each other type of thing?

Also thanks Ichigo, glad I'm not the only one seeing things this way.

I am currently think that Zyelars are split into a few major categories (all of which should be more in depth when I make an "official" Religion post:

1: Straight-up hold to your beliefs Zyelars: Multiple Deities are silly, there is only 1 Adakith, the Life Mother. This is the "true Zyelar Way". Potentially they believe the other "gods" exist but sees them more as powerful spirits using man or even demons than anything worth consideration as "holy".

2: What is a Life Mother without Children: Either all other Deities are the children of Adakith, or small fragments of her personality so that she could micro manage better. In this the Zyelar Goddess is still above any other god, but the actual beliefs begin to take on aspects of the Marosian Pantheon.

3: Adakith is a patron God of the Zyelar, but only one of the Gods: Adakith is another name for Dylia.

Of course which of these would be the most prevalent would depend on the time, but it seems likely at any point where mixed culture communities where common place throughout much of the world #3 would actually be the most prevalent, but with #1 likely still strongly standing on the mountains and east there of, as that is where the few holy sites/cities are.

/// shading is probably a good idea.

oooh I like that. It really makes the religion multi-faceted! It also makes sense too because often there are these various views found in a religion.

I'll post later today with some more ideas and answers to your questions Kiki, but as for religious overlap, yeah we can have religions overlap in certain areas and then when we create countries we can specify who the minority is and who the majority is in the region- or that could be done now.

A bit late for this, but what Kiki just posted is what really daunts me about religion. I'm not against someone coming in with a laundry list of info that includes names and feast dates and all this s*** because that how we did the cultures, but I was hoping for an ordered discussion where we take the biggest culture, talk about its cultural background and how this might define its religion and then work our way through the smaller cultures affected by it. Then we would take other big cultures with child cultures, see how the bigger one affected them and how they affect their offshoots, and then finish off outliers who may or may not have fell under the influence of the others. Granted it would have taken a while, but we needed to not just create a bunch of catch all religions with certain deities that we have because they sound cool and we need to build up from our foundation in a way that makes sense. I know I haven't been in the conversation since people decided what Gods they were interested in having, but I find it hard to jump in and really have any sort of say in a list that was premade.

For example, there was talk of an elk god for no real reason and it was being accepted not because it fit into any cultural context, but because "oh man that is a cool idea!"
For f***'s sake, what culture is that deity for? Is there a reason they would worship a f*** elk? Why does this elk exist? Does it exist? Did they misinterpret something and made it an elk and it's actually something else entirely? Is it a permutation of an older belief? Do elks play an role in this culture's heritage? All this is pointing to the big f*** idea behind making things that make sense in world building: Why should this exist within the context of the world that we are building?

The problem I have with jumping in is that there is no true collaboration going on right now, it's voting for a list to be canon with a few edits here and there! We might as well just make 5 different pet projects at this rate because nothing is going to make any sense when we put it all together if we build it this way.

_____
Ichigo, what confuses me about that religion is the kingdom business. I'm not sure about that because we haven't dealt with states yet so I'm not sure how to work in that kind of information if we haven't discussed any of it at all. I think it's hard to be really specific about these things until we come to a conclusion about what states the Katyann cultures exist in. We know they aren't unified because I specified they weren't in the cultural bio, but we don't have any other idea concerning the issue so it's terra incognita.

Holy s***.

Information is kept vague so it can be edited and changed later. The religion doesn't need to suit the state and the state doesn't need to suit the religion, at least initially. These things can be changed later and edited. Nothing is set in stone.




I guess I'm kinda' leaning towards members of clergy not being allowed to use magic save monks(who really wouldn't use it either, just study it). The church itself has nothing against magic or magic users they just would take vows to not use magic, among other things, when they join the general clergy. I thought about maybe having a separate branch of the church that studies magic and uses secret techniques they've specifically created amongst themselves to protect and enforce the law of their religion.



I'll put forth my ideas for some duodecos gods here in a bit as well as my ideas for religious boundaries.





This made me laugh because this stuff was discussed lightly in the context of the culture they were hoping to have the religion encapsulate. On top of that it was an idea that needed to be fleshed out by multiple parties, the idea was still in its primitive state but it didn't just come out of no where. The culture of the region they were discussing fit the religious idea, I'm guessing you didn't read any of that though, right?