Theres a simple solution to you not liking the supposed "game ruining experience" of such items. Turn them off in mulitplayer modes, and for single player modes, make sure to get it before your opponents and intentially miss with it. Well... maybe not simple, but its a start.

And you're complaining about this item when the smash ball exists, which quite frankly has the potential to be much more powerful and easier to control, not to mention appears a lot more often and multiple times per match. If any item deserves being called overpowered its that one, but it was made that way on purpose.

Do you realize how unendingly stupid the last half of that sentence is

I dont know, I thought it made sense. Oh well.

Ive seen people pick up and throw pokeballs off the stage because they didnt want to use them, and they didnt want anyone else to use them either, so I figured such a strategy might work here as well.

Exactly how am I wrong? Sure some characters are stronger than others but skill plays a HUGE part in using characters.

Nope not always. Some characters hold luck to get a good ko (Game & Watch with his side b and Peach with her down b for examples.)

I said a huge part, not all of it. Look at the competitive players. They're that good because of years of practice and skill, not because of a character being OP. Same thing for anyone who's good with a character. practice building skill is what makes a character seem good.

I don't play competitively, but I use Peach to juggle then KO with Peach Bomber, so I don't think luck should really factor into how she's played. Just avoid luck moves and use the good ones.

um
do you know how many people seriously play pichu or kirby in a melee tournament
do you know why meta knight is banned
do you know why smash balls are banned


besides, it is easy as cake to change the knockback and damage of a move. it's simply a couple of numbers that are changed and viola, nerf.
dragoon is OP as hell for being a pretty much free KO even if it is dodgable. it makes the game into a guessing game and if the other person doesn't guess when you're gonna press A then they lose a stock/you get a free score.
this is a super fun item to use and it's really unique, especially with how it brings you into a shooter-esque screen. that's f*** cool as hell. but i can't use it because it makes matches cheap and it's no fun to everyone else. if it had less knockback, that'd be great.

little mac's uppercut KO is a different story as it isn't actually a near-guaranteed 1HKO and the fact that Little Mac's air game is terrible balances it out just fine. i don't know anything about the startup but i doubt it's equal to the 1-2 frame startup of the dragoon.

skill doesn't mean jack s*** if the character is overpowered. let's take fiber eblem for example. the main character in that game is overpowered as f***. you could send him into almost anywhere and he demolishes almost every enemy.

what if my enemy was really skilled but had weak units? no amount of skill can help them because they can't do s*** f*** about my main character.



pokemon moves are an entirely different thing because ember and such are meant to be early-game moves to help ease the player into things. ember isn't meant for a pvp environment unless the other person is on the same playing field as you, in which case it is suitable. however, there's a good chance that if you have ember in your moveset and your opponent doesn't then there's probably a level difference. or you don't know what you're doing


smash, on the other hand, isn't an RPG in the main game. level differences don't exist in this game and it's pretty much a fighting game. you don't progress through and get stronger as you go in the main games. you are supposed to be as strong as your opponent.
then you pick up the dragoon and say "f*** BALANCE" because they just lost a stock because of an OP weapon.

i pray that the daybreak has a sort of charge to warn the other players, in which case it's their own fault for getting hit. dragoon should have had a bit of a charge too so it came down to timing and not luck/guessing.

If I may
I also don't like the Dragoon. Not because it was OP (it's not, you can avoid it pretty easily), but because it ruined the flow of the match. It was just irritating to have the focus of the match change from killing each other to trying to get the Dragoon parts. It doesn't matter with a Smash Ball because it's just one item, and it's either grabbed quickly, or disappears off screen.
Not Dragoon. It hangs around for potentially a very long time because you drop all your parts when you die, and especially of matches that involve more than 2 players (which is likely because if Dragoon is on I'm likely to be playing with more than one friend), it can end up being hoarded for like half the match without being used, with each player maybe only having one piece each. You can't do any interesting combos or fun followups or chase people off stage because if they drop the piece you're pretty much obliged to run and grab it before someone else does.

That's very fair. I guess it just comes down to preference, like if you don't mind the dynamic of the match being changed. But I totally get that reasoning. Nothing like what anyone else was saying lmao

"Pic of the day. Victini and Xerneas are both support Pokémon. Victini's Victory Star boosts the attack of whoever throws the Poké Ball, and also prevents flinching. Xerneas's Geomancy increases the launch power of all fighters, but exceptionally raises it for whoever had the Poké Ball."

xerneas confirmed

Damn near word for word how I feel about it

I really didn't feel like typing it though so ty

@POTD I was really hoping he was finally going to properly introduce that stage

Pikachu has now temporarily become God. Jesus Christ Attack + Launch Power + No Flinching omg

Ugh.

The whole "design" behind Daybreak follows both the same concept of the Dragoon in Super Smash Brothers Brawl and it's original "design" in the Kid Icarus Uprising game it came from. The idea behind Daybreak was to create an item with both huge risk and reward factors to it.

Let's take the Smash ball for example. Everyone goes after it because it has powerful capabilities to it and has strong killpower. It's risky to use because you only have one chance with it but at the same time pulled off a much higher reward than other items have due to the amount of strength it brings. At the same time, you were going against other players too so there was a huge challenge that paid off when you were finally the one to get it. The daybreak is that multiplied by 3. It's a incredibly powerful weapon (powerful than that of the Smash ball) but the challenge was even greater because you have to deal with players all for the intention of getting those 3 pieces and putting together the Incredible Daybreak. It's like fighting over 3 pieces of a treasure map that pays off in the end when you manage to put the pieces together.

Also like the many stage hazards and incredible items, the Daybreak is also intended to break up the monotony of just Brawling and add a variety of new elements and gimmicks that the casual audience can enjoy at the same time while battling it out. Makes the game feel more intense because it didn't felt like just an old fashioned 4 brawler but it felt like you were going up against greater challenges in the Smash Brothers universe with all these crazy items and stages.

If it's not your cup of tea, that's alright. You have the option to turn it off at any given time or play around with it. Calling it bad game design is just invalid when the person arguing about it doesn't understand about the intended "design" behind the item itself.

what's essentially happening here is we're watching a game of soccer, nobody scores for the entire game, i say i don't like it and everyone else just says i don't understand


also i'm not sure if you have the definition of risk-reward down. unless the risk of the dragoon is the small bit of helplessness after you launch (which isn't really all that risky), there's no risk involved. if you miss, whatever.

in kid icarus the daybreak is done really well because while it may be very powerful, it's not game breaking by any means. it does a good amount of damage but it's hard to hit with accurately and iirc has a huge startup

a good example of risk/reward is marth's FS, especially in the air. missing it gives you a ton of ending lag and if you miss it in midair you're prooobably KO'd
but this is one of the few FSes to be a free OHKO if it succeeds. the risk of it though balances it out. not to mention it has a long startup.


something like Link's Triforce Slash isn't too powerful and you can use it at 0% and there's a good chance you won't get a KO. dragoon, imo, should be around this power.

sheik's and zelda's FS may be powerful as well but they also have long startups as opposed to the dragoon.