Let me try and solve this argument with a haiku. Ahem.

Lloyd is braindead k?
Hopefully it will be fixed
Stop dead horse beating.

https://youtu.be/_gPj_dKdmFY?t=47s
I think Tiger Rage would be a nice option instead of Tiger Blade --> Nair or something.
I also thought of giving him options like the 2nd part of the move would make Lloyd go either make him move horizontally or vertically , that's maybe a way of buffing his recovery.

s*** I'm talking about buffing him.

He doesn't need any buffs or nerfs all he needs is a drastic overhaul on his playstyle.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=39842

I don't remember ever getting my 'a** on blast' on F2U but k then.
I never said his design was good nor bad, all I said was, that's how his design is. Reworking him is an option but that would take a lot of time to do so don't expect that any time soon. Furthurmore, like I said before, there are many characters (such as ZSS) who have the same issues as Lloyd that also make them, by your standards, 'braindead ez'. Nerfing all of these characters would be cool and all but it would be much less time consuming to just buff low tier characters.

And yes, I do remember the old system. I also remember the infinite Up B > D Air loops, the double up bs the far range chain grabs as well as stuff before that like his extreme light weight issue and how he could side b opponents and take their stocks at like 50% no problem. If you think about it, the Lloyd before was way more broken than his current state. I don't find his recovery at the moment to be great and it's gonna be even worse now that they're changing certain moves (D Air iirc). When it comes to MUs, he still has flaws. Anyone can beat Lloyd (aswell as any other character) if they just understand how their moves work and how to punish them. At the moment, yes, I see the current balance needs some work. Is it fine at the moment? Yes, nothing is insanely broken enough that it just makes the game anti-fun.

Insulting your gameplay?!?!?!?!?!! Yeah, 'cuz you present yourself like some dude who faps to Tales Of lore whilst chugging Mountain Dew and whining about how much you hate the Devs.

Call me what you want, I seriously don't care. I have nothing against you. Just stop acting like a prick everytime you walk in here. If you legitimately have something to talk about in terms of Lloyd and his balance, then just say it, instead of spraying salt all over the place.

Take your mental retardation elsewhere you autistic moron lmao, first of all you somehow miss my point of linked artes somehow it's nice to know that you prove my point of not knowing what you're talking about and will stop at nothing to suck the devs balls lol. Remember the petition you mentioned? How the f*** did you not know who started it and you somehow skip everything I said in my past post like I thought you would. Suli kill yourself and stop spreading your stupidity pls.

Not even sure how you get the idea that I wasn't talking about Linked Arte- O wait you never played ToS and don't know what you're talking about. Linked Artes where as close as we got to a inspired Lloyd that fit the Smash environment and it also gave Lloyd plenty more mix-up potential, this could havve been improved on to balance it a bit more.

I wonder if they realize that nothing they say matters either way and that Lloyd is going through huge changes supposedly in the upcoming version. Stop arguing and be patient. Also, Lloyd not even that broke. Brainded, yes. Annoying as all hell, yes. But just gimp his recovery lol EZPZ

Holy s*** do you not understand what I've meant the whole time? I'm not asking for the n**** to get nerfed I'm asking for him to be completely changed because his playstyle right now is uninspired as all hell, and feels like an insult to the character to be honest. The character doesn't need to feel like he's a mix of Sheik and Marth.

Ok, continue this argument somewhere else please. Lloyd is getting changed, so this argument will soon be invalid. So please stop littering the thread with these childish jabs at each other.

And this is why... no one wants you.... in this thread.

Your only point is 'Lloyd is uninspired' but you seem to forget what TSON told you in your giant a** thread from a while back as to why you think he should be changed (you should probably go back and read that). No, I'm not dickriding the devs. I have no idea where you got that idea from. I'm just replying to your blatant arguments and because you put in 0 thought into anything you write (aka your a lazy a**) you just reply with stupid s*** and telling me to kill myself.

Seriously dude, get the f*** outta here, I can't be asked to read your essays if you're not gonna bother to have even the slightest bit of repect for others or reasoning for any of your arguments.

I just Tiger Blade and hope for the best.

see, I enjoi sk8boards a gud fite, problem is, suli and yoh r both my flens, so it's not as cool.

I think some people are about to be banned from this section if they keep it up.

I kinda agree with yoh about Lloyd being braindead because most of the Lloyd players I face only, with the exception of Lunary and someone else, just spam side special, up special into neutral aerial and repeat the process. Sometimes they will just spam down special until it works which gets really annoying.

I secondary Lloyd and when I see someone play him that way reminds me of how people play Naruto, which makes me sicks to my stomach.

However, if Lloyd is getting changed than I want to see some game play of his changes before having my final judgement on the matter. I never played the TOS game nor have I used Lloyd in the earlier demos with his artes so I can't say anything on the matter about his old game play style.

picking up lloyd cause I can't be arsed to deal with stupid matchups as falcon

some beginner tips/b&b combos pls?

only listen to me cuz i'm based
lloyd relies on reads and spacing.
reads are more likely to be successful because he has big and long attack boxes.
first of all , go to training mode and study his moveset ; the speed and the range of the animations , lloyd's dash speed/jump height and short hop distance.
b&b combos (that only work because people can't DI)
--> dash attack -> ( uair --> DJ uair --> up-b --> uair/fair) = lloyd is jank combo
--> up-b to fastfall fair -> grab bthrow -> fair -> grab bthrow -> fair
--> utilt -> lloyd is jank combo
--> short hop fair --> dash attack
--> Fastfall Nair --> UpSmash
--> bair --> Fsmash
--> (neutral-b --> grab/upsmash) nintendo95 combo
--> at 50% : (fair --> fair --> side-b/fair) oh baby a triple combo

only use dsmash as a hard a** read.
don't spam fsmash to edgeguard , it's like Falcon fthrow to dair. dats weak
if you dair at the right height , it will be lagcancelled
don't use ftilt, unless you want to disrespect the other guy
don't spam up-b nair , unless you want to make him ragequit + people will adapt (if they are good enough)
lloyd runs as fast as mario but falls faster than him. this means his short hops are legit
recovering is some metagame stuff , just guess if people would think you'll sweetspot the ledge or recover high (not useful yet because people can't edgeguard)

tl;dr just be creative