The McLeodGaming forums were permanently closed on April 30th, 2020. You are currently viewing a read-only archive.
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri May 15, 2020 3:45 am



 [ 11 posts ] 
Zalo's October tier-list 
Author Message

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:46 pm
Posts: 1514
Location: Westchester, New York
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Male
MGN Username: Zalozis Zemsis
Skype: ZaloZemsis
Currently Playing: Gundam Wing: Endless Dual | Melty Blood: Actress Again Current Code | Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Had this list for several months now, but I finally decided to share it.

Tier-1 [1 to 7] (Very-powerful with few weaknesses):
:lloyd: Lloyd, :marth: Marth, :metaknight: Meta-Knight, :naruto: Naruto, :pikachu: Pikachu, :sheik: Sheik, :zerosuitsamus: Zamus

Tier-1.5 [8 to 13] (Slightly Less Powerful than above due to some more exploitable weaknesses):
:bomberman: Bomberman, :donkeykong: Donkey Kong, :captainfalcon: Falcon, :fox: Fox, :goku: Goku, :tails: Tails

Tier-2 [14 to 19] (Good Balance of variable strengths and exploitable weaknesses in MU):
:blackmage: Black Mage, :link: Link, :ichigo: Ichigo, :mario: Mario, :yoshi: Yoshi, :zelda: Zelda

Tier-3 [20 to 29] (Below-Average due to uneven construction of playstyle):
:chibirobo: Chibi-Robo, :jigglypuff: Jigglypuff, :kirby: Kirby, :megaman: Mega Man, :ness: Ness, :peach: Peach, :samus: Samus, :sonic: Sonic, :sora: Sora , :wario: Wario

Notes:

- Tier division aren't in specific order. Characters alphabetized in each class.

- Charging-Glitches are considered banned on this list.

- I am creating this list with the consideration of highest level performed with that character, and the max level factually possible against other character their max possible potential.

Overview: There are obvious gaps between certain characters; however, within each tier-class where several characters have similar potential at high-level, there's multiple examples and arguments to be made for who's superior. Each have displayed their use in a high-level competitive environment, each have their own specialist main behind them to support their ability to perform at high-level, but the balance in the roster and stage selection makes the decision for a precise order cannot satisfactorily be determined.

Top-tier are over equipment with powerful tools and options but overall still end up having several even to losing match-up against characters that are two, or more tier-classes below them. Low-tiers are very under constructed in design and balance but aren't severely devastated by their issues.

I cannot stress enough that most low-tier aren't truly bad. Most of them have too many advantages to be that bad. Mario can death combo most characters off a single grab, as well has smashes that kill at 95%. Ness has great utility of tool in neutral. Jigglypuff can fence characters off-stage to gimp. Mega Man can zone hard enough that not even Top-tiers can break through his wall. And Sora can sneeze on you to deliver 50%, even if the combo started at 100%, making his KO potential negligible with experience behind him.

But, environmentally, the meta is not exactly suited for most of them, and Higher-tier just apply their strengths much easier in battle. Additionally, most Low-tiers' potential can be significantly effected by the stages, where most High-tiers only get a minor weakening by their worst stage (Unless it's a retarded stages like WarioWario or Mirror Chamber).

tl;dr - This game is like Smash 64 in balanced: every character has crazy-stupid s***, just on slight different levels of stupid.

P.S. - This doesn't mean there isn't a ton of things that need adjusting for future updates.

_________________

Luigi Movement, Cancel, Tech, etc.
YouTube Video:
SSF2 Google Drive
". . . Emphasis . . . of players helping one-another"


Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:27 pm
WWW
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:19 pm
Posts: 88
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Male
MGN Username: Jadeneck
Skype: Jadeneck72
Currently Playing: SSF2 , Overwatch
Im interested in the placing of Zelda on your tier list, mind to expand on that a little?

_________________
YouTube Video:


Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:03 pm
BR Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:14 pm
Posts: 2075
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Anime Girl
Currently Playing: SSF2, MGS 3, Melee, Project M
Assuming that the only banned tactic is stalling using the Edge-Cancelled Getup Attack invincibility (i.e., all charge-stacking glitches are legal), how do you think this tier list changes?

Can you elaborate on why Falcon is where he is?

_________________
Image

For Doom:
:marth: :donkeykong: :fox:
For Kicks:
:peach: :captainfalcon: :samus:


Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:41 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:06 pm
Posts: 408
Location: I don't even know what's a location
Country: Chile (cl)
Gender: Anime Girl
MGN Username: Drarky
Currently Playing: SSF2, Starbound
Waifu: Lenna Tycoon
If charging glitches are banned the I want BM to be tier 1 :blackmage:

On a more serious note, I'm somewhat curious about BMs placement, it seems a little bit... low compared to some of the other candidates in the same tier as him.

_________________
At this point, I use way too many characters.

ImageImageImageImage


Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:53 pm
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:48 pm
Posts: 282
Location: Lurking undearneath your keyboard..
Country: Canada (ca)
MGN Username: P12323
Skype: Praeto Potato
Currently Playing: Pokemon Showdown
From what I've seen from BM, he's pretty good at edgeguarding, zoning and juggling. He has decent killing power too. He seems to have trouble with fast characters such as falcon. With all that in mind, he can keep up or even be on par with high tiers. I think he has to be higher but your placement is your choice man.

_________________
Image


Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:49 am
BR Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:58 pm
Posts: 1838
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Gender: Male
MGN Username: CSWooly
Skype: CSWooly
Currently Playing: Fire Emblem Fates: Birthright, SSF2, SSB4, League of Legends.
Lloyd at #1.

I'm honestly confused by this placement. Top tier yes, but definitely not No. 1 imo.

Mind expanding on Lloyd's placement?

_________________
Follow me on Twitter here.
Youtube channel.

Image

Click to expand thumbnail

SSF2 Backroom Character Analyst and Labber

Mains: :lucario: :simon:


Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:21 am
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 345
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Male
MGN Username: Lite2Key
Currently Playing: SSF2, M.U.G.E.N., One Piece A-Edition
Zalozis wrote:
Notes:

- Tier division aren't in specific order. Characters alphabetized in each class.

So like how many people read this

_________________
Mains: :sonic: :jigglypuff:
Honorable Mention: :pikachu:
Image


Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:14 am
BR Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:22 am
Posts: 854
Location: Afairica
Country: United Arab Emirates (ae)
Gender: Male
MGN Username: Suli Hyuga
Skype: suliboy25
Charging glitches are actually highly complex mechonics that only dabess playurs such as m'self and m'characters can do. I cannot stress enough the importance of such korean cs2 macros and because of this, you will be hearing from my lawyers. The only reason why I'm stuck in Anther's bronze elo hell is because too many NA scrobs want to fite with NA lag which holds me back from my WWE Grandslamma jamma title. Furthermore, I feel that Naruto and Marth has been highly overrated (that part was serious btw). I am guessing this is because your a japanophile weeb. You will be hearing from my lawyers.

I deserve Gold, gg.

_________________
Image

My YouTube page! Subscribe! (Currently on hiatus)
My twitter!


Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:21 pm
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:45 pm
Posts: 250
Location: Not Earth
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Male
MGN Username: Kyoz
Currently Playing: SSF2, SSBB, ProjectM, SSB4
Tier 1 is good, but idk about the rest like Zelda be low tier.

_________________
Image
Profile Theme Song
★ ° ☾ ☆ ¸. ¸  ★  :.  . • ○ ° ★  .  * . .  ¸ .   °  ¸. * ● ¸ . ....somewhere   ° ☾ °  ¸. ● ¸ .  ★ ° :.  . • ° .*:...in a parallel universe..
Mains: :zerosuitsamus: :yoshi: :peach:


Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:33 pm

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:46 pm
Posts: 1514
Location: Westchester, New York
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Male
MGN Username: Zalozis Zemsis
Skype: ZaloZemsis
Currently Playing: Gundam Wing: Endless Dual | Melty Blood: Actress Again Current Code | Super Smash Bros. Brawl
@Jadeneck: Everyone in Tier-1 have wins over her overall, half the characters in Tier-1.5 give her a hard time, and she goes close to even with everyone in Tier-2. But she does slaughter everyone underneath her.

As much as Zelda has going for her, most people really exaggerate the necessary tactics to defeat her. In neutral, you honestly just stay outside her physical range. This is both stay away at mid-range at neutral or playing a runaway game from far-range. From there, she has no variable approach option or ability to negate the distance do to a slow approach and singular design projectile. Mostly any character faster than her controls the flow of neutral. Nearly everyone above her, has methods to nullify her best options, restricting her to moderate level options.

Basically, she's has some unsafe options in neutral and struggles to punish her opponent's options in neutral. For her to make up this, she has to rely on more risky tactics. Some of them are: Short-Hop approach Nayru's Love - a difficult 50/50 guess that opponent can react to shield or move just outside it's range to punish ending lag. Shield-grabs - which can be crossed-up/frame-trapped. Farore's Wind Mix-up - impractical, but may catch opponent off-guard. Din's Ground Impact - perhaps more unexpected as if she short-hops and land the explosion, though this is impractical as well. She'll be relatively safe from when opponent moving in offensively. But a move with long enough range thrown out can end up hitting her and destroying the Din's at the same time.

I guess I could sum it up as, "Zelda has to play fair into order to beat experienced top-tier players."
___________________

@TheCodeSamurai: Falcon very great neutral and still has really strong punish game that's tough to ignore, with guaranteed high damaging setups. Still a good recovery that some characters below him have edgeguarding. Still has Fthrow > Dair on virtually everyone for gimps too; that throw just setups for Nipple Spike in most scenarios and, in others, Double Dair; and Falcon can still recovery. And percentages to land it a majority of the time and over a short-hop or full-jump for follow DI is a decently wide. I also think his ability to weave though tough zoning is underestimated a bit (most specifically the Naruto match-up. A single opening is enough for when to get in for a full punish. I like to say more no-impact landings for platform movement, combined with immediate fast-falls of platforms. It's not exactly wavelanding on platform movement speed, but a good substitution improve his movement on platform stages. Overall, I think there's a more to optimizing Falcon that would get him above mid-tier and handling the other characters in his shared tier.

As Charge-glitch, Naruto gets a buff with a high-damaging Rasengan that he can store and immediately Rasenshuriken after use. It less risky on whiff and creates a a frame-trap if shielded. Sheik gets double needles. I guess the main significant spot to change would be Samus whole could be touching on more Tier-1.5. Anywhere between her own death or her opponents, she can charge and comeback potential that she gains is simple to Naruto with Rasenshuriken.
___________________

@Drarky: I think a lot of people over emphasize his abilities because of how odd they are. Black Mage has tons of tricks and traps that are but all can be dealt with in some matter. Once you consistently learn to minimize his use with them, I find his ability to play neutral is quite normalized. Through he has some interest make options like retreating jumps to Fair-landing to weave out-then-in of ranges, which is nice to improve his ground movement spacing. It's also very hard to judge because you are the best and only high-level Black Mage (and the only one online). But I feel like dealing with Black Mage is more using good fundamentals and knowing the functionality of his tricks.
___________________

@Kyoz: But Zelda isn't in Low-tier. She's has a lot of material that makes a very strong character, but most characters above her have a tactic that puts the MU out of her favor.

_________________

Luigi Movement, Cancel, Tech, etc.
YouTube Video:
SSF2 Google Drive
". . . Emphasis . . . of players helping one-another"


Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:36 pm
WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:43 pm
Posts: 761
Location: Miami, FL
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Male
Zalozis wrote:
@Jadeneck: Everyone in Tier-1 have wins over her overall, half the characters in Tier-1.5 give her a hard time, and she goes close to even with everyone in Tier-2. But she does slaughter everyone underneath her.

As much as Zelda has going for her, most people really exaggerate the necessary tactics to defeat her. In neutral, you honestly just stay outside her physical range. This is both stay away at mid-range at neutral or playing a runaway game from far-range. From there, she has no variable approach option or ability to negate the distance do to a slow approach and singular design projectile. Mostly any character faster than her controls the flow of neutral. Nearly everyone above her, has methods to nullify her best options, restricting her to moderate level options.

Basically, she's has some unsafe options in neutral and struggles to punish her opponent's options in neutral. For her to make up this, she has to rely on more risky tactics. Some of them are: Short-Hop approach Nayru's Love - a difficult 50/50 guess that opponent can react to shield or move just outside it's range to punish ending lag. Shield-grabs - which can be crossed-up/frame-trapped. Farore's Wind Mix-up - impractical, but may catch opponent off-guard. Din's Ground Impact - perhaps more unexpected as if she short-hops and land the explosion, though this is impractical as well. She'll be relatively safe from when opponent moving in offensively. But a move with long enough range thrown out can end up hitting her and destroying the Din's at the same time.

I guess I could sum it up as, "Zelda has to play fair into order to beat experienced top-tier players."
___________________

@TheCodeSamurai: Falcon very great neutral and still has really strong punish game that's tough to ignore, with guaranteed high damaging setups. Still a good recovery that some characters below him have edgeguarding. Still has Fthrow > Dair on virtually everyone for gimps too; that throw just setups for Nipple Spike in most scenarios and, in others, Double Dair; and Falcon can still recovery. And percentages to land it a majority of the time and over a short-hop or full-jump for follow DI is a decently wide. I also think his ability to weave though tough zoning is underestimated a bit (most specifically the Naruto match-up. A single opening is enough for when to get in for a full punish. I like to say more no-impact landings for platform movement, combined with immediate fast-falls of platforms. It's not exactly wavelanding on platform movement speed, but a good substitution improve his movement on platform stages. Overall, I think there's a more to optimizing Falcon that would get him above mid-tier and handling the other characters in his shared tier.

As Charge-glitch, Naruto gets a buff with a high-damaging Rasengan that he can store and immediately Rasenshuriken after use. It less risky on whiff and creates a a frame-trap if shielded. Sheik gets double needles. I guess the main significant spot to change would be Samus whole could be touching on more Tier-1.5. Anywhere between her own death or her opponents, she can charge and comeback potential that she gains is simple to Naruto with Rasenshuriken.
___________________

@Drarky: I think a lot of people over emphasize his abilities because of how odd they are. Black Mage has tons of tricks and traps that are but all can be dealt with in some matter. Once you consistently learn to minimize his use with them, I find his ability to play neutral is quite normalized. Through he has some interest make options like retreating jumps to Fair-landing to weave out-then-in of ranges, which is nice to improve his ground movement spacing. It's also very hard to judge because you are the best and only high-level Black Mage (and the only one online). But I feel like dealing with Black Mage is more using good fundamentals and knowing the functionality of his tricks.
___________________

@Kyoz: But Zelda isn't in Low-tier. She's has a lot of material that makes a very strong character, but most characters above her have a tactic that puts the MU out of her favor.



Bro, this was beautiful, I enjoyed reading, all characters are well placed, a little iffy on Lloyd and Zelda, but other than that 10/10.

_________________
RETIRED


Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:15 pm
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 [ 11 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.