perfect pivoting, not pivoting.

What are everyone's opinions on the worst characters?

little mac, but only because i always try to use a lot of aerials, meaning i suck with him.

little mac has glaring weaknesses but he's far from the worst, his frame data is really really good

i'd argue zelda, mii gunner, mii swordfighter, and wii fit trainer are some of the worst.

Yeah little mac is actually big threat on the ground and if you can get past his air weakness he is really good. I don't know if I would say the wii fit trainer is the worst though zelda,mii gunner and swordfighter I can't agrue with because they aren't really all that great to use competitively.

WFT's only real merit is that she's pretty alright at zoning and matchup inexperience can help you win

that's about it really

yeah true

I will most likely piss off most Robin mains, including myself by saying Robin is one of the worst.

Seriously, Robin has one of the worst zoning games in the history of smash in that he can LITERALLY run out of options. And they aren't minor things either, his kill power, zoning game and recovery are all dependent on this mechanic. Furthermore if he is hit whilst casting these spells, he loses the durability on that even though the spell never came out.

Additionally, Robin has poor attributes all around. He has the slowest speed, the shortest grab range and pretty poor frame data. Unlike other potentially low tiers that get saved by customs (Dragon Rush, Jumbo Hoop, Kong Cyclone, Wizard's Dropkick etc.) Robin arguably has some of the worst custom moves in the game, with moves like Arcfire+ and Soaring Elwind being particularly awful. Due to these overall poor attributes, any rushdown character can completely shut down Robin, with one of his worst matchups being SAMUS for crying out loud.

So, yeah, that's why Robin is one of the worst.

Best characters: the characters I like
Worst characters: the characters you like

what if we like the same characters kb?

revised list

god tier: characters i like that you don't like
good tier: characters i like that you also like
okay tier: characters we're both indifferent on
bad tier: characters i don't like that you also don't like
s*** tier: characters i don't like that you like

yeah robin's pretty bad unfortunately
i didn't drop him because he wasn't fun to play as, because he's really fun for the most part. but when you're on for glory, it's absolute hell playing against any of the most popular characters like Sheik, Rosa, Sonic, ZSS, Falcon, or even Link. all of them except the last one just beat the hell out of him because he can't really run or escape combos and he doesn't have time to shoot arcfire or charge thunder.

i do absolutely love how he combos though with arcfire and thunder. it's a lot more fun compared to ness in my opinion due to the final hit of arcfire having good knockback. hell, sometimes you can combo arcfire into arcthunder (or it's vice versa..).

his back throw is also fun to toss opponents around with. gives you a good chunk of time to charge thunder. he's the most fun campy character imo

him literally running out of projectiles isn't really an issue when you have options to keep your opponent away. item management dude


unfortunately, his incredibly low speed in general is really painful, not to mention his bad grab, pummel, and roll. his levin sword is also pretty weak for what it is.


i wouldn't call him one of the worst though. he's like, mid-low, but not bottom.

Ganondorf, mainly because of his recovery

Robin also struggles on For Glory because of FD is his worst stage. He gets comboed easier and he doesn't have platforms to help him mix up Arcfires. Also, rushdowns have an easier time on this stage.

Also, you are right in that running out of PROJECTILES isn't really an issue. What is an issue is that everything he has is dependent on durability. His recovery, his kill power and his entire zoning game is reliant on this. Item management can also become more difficult when you are hit mid-cast as he still loses the spell.

His back throw can be used to KO, but his best throws are Forward and Down Throw. Forward Throw -> Arcfire works at low percents. D-Throw -> Fair/UAir is also decent but not guaranteed. Also, Arcthunder -> Arcfire (or vice versa) isn't the only thing. You can also Aerial or chain Arcfires.

Robin will probably end up in Lower-Mid (in a similar place to Lucas, Pokemon Trainer and Luigi in Brawl) simply because of his very weird matchup spread. Robin has an even matchup with Rosaluma (surprisingly), who is considered top tier, whereas he gets absolutely rekt by Samus, who is considered bottom tier by many. My view on Robin was that he/she was a great concept that was poorly implemented.

One question though, if Sakurai preferred Robin over Chrom, and he made Robin this bad, how bad would he have made Chrom?

A clone of Ike lol.

Where did you get Robin has an even MU with Rosaluma?