Thanks for the inputs on the Naruto v. Fox matchup, y'all. A lot of great points were made.

The reason why I mentioned it is because lately my Naruto has been getting completely wrecked by the top Fox players, and I'm not sure what adjustments I need to make. I understand Fox, but I just can't figure out how to fight him as Naruto (lately I've been having better luck against with him with my secondaries, such as Fox and Falcon). My opinion is that Fox definitely has the upper hand in the matchup because I feel like he has all of the tools to neutralize some of the biggest advantages Naruto has. Like you guys already mentioned, he easily out-prioritizes the clones, can get out of u-tilt at early percentages with Shine, and though Naruto has, in my opinion, a good (great?) close-range game and can rushdown a lot better than most of the characters, Fox is simply better at it. Any tips you guys might have as to how to play Fox would be appreciated.


Regarding Scum's post, D-tilt isn't the greatest move, but I like it a lot. It seems like not a lot of people expect it so it really does make for a great "surprise" KO move. Also, Scum, as far as not being able to combo into it, I've gotten a good amount of kills with using it after a jab cancel. Have you tried that?



Also, gonna be so excited with 1.0 comes out and N-spec gets fixed. So sick of having it fully charged, using it in the air, and then falling to my death. ,__,

The thing is I don't try to rely on my projectiles to much unless its on a large stage. I would say try to mix up your approach by using the projectiles, going in for a grab or using Naruto's own N-air.

Another thing is that if Naruto can get a lot of stage control, than Fox would be pressured. I have had this done to me because I'm using Fox now when fighting certain Naruto's, but if they over whelm me with their stage control and reflector has a hard time keeping up than the tide of battle goes into Naruto's favor. Just be careful on your mix up game and you might stand a chance.

Edit:By stage control I mean is have all your shadow clone projectiles out at once. The clone land mine, side speical, aerial and ground down special as well long Rasenshuriken. However, I would leave the Rasenshuirken for high percentages.

Clones only last for 20 seconds(Yes I counted them) I don't really think they are in need of a nerf. For those of you who say that the clones shouldn't stun because he never did that in the anime/manga remember that smash doesn't follow canon. I think the only things that really need to be tweaked are the kick follow up of the up B(I'd like it to come out faster just a tad bit) If you really want to nerf the clones I think shortening the time they're out by 5 seconds because 15 seconds is still a decent amount while not being too amazing, and finally his dair not going for so long.

On a side note, what would you guys say are naruto's best and worst stages?

It would make for a better visual effect if the clone was holding onto the character. Like he's keeping them in place for Naruto to punish.

Maybe it's just me, but as far as worst stages, I absolutely hate playing on Battlefield and WarioWare with Naruto.

I think the platforms remedy Clones' annoyance somewhat. Aerial Dspec Clones aren't as bad thanks to platform protection, and neither are Sspec Clones to a small extent.

Agreed, howver I also think that Up-spec clones become more painful

That is very true especially when the player just decides to up special every time you go near them or they will just up special into its attack any chance some players get which is annoying as hell.

As a Naruto player myself, I look down on people who do this. It makes me sick to my stomach on how people play him this way.

Naruto can kinda do the Marth thing where he uspecials onto a platform so that it's nearly lagless and put out a good hitbox with very little risk.

The great thing about WW and BF for Naruto is that dthrow tech-chases are very hard to stop on platforms, and they can lead to serious damage if you get the right positioning.

Yeah and I hate it. I just find certain moves that can go through his specials, including the clone mine left by up special. This way I can find a way to counter Naruto players instead of doing dittos. I only do a ditto when the Naruto player actually think they are the s*** and I destroy them with mine.

Just hold down and you won't be thrown onto the platform! Then you can go down to the ground and tech. On a stage like WW you might be able to mix them up and tech on the middle platform once in a while.

How do y'all feel about Naruto's placement on the tier list? Personally, I feel like maybe he and Fox should switch places, but I'm not really sure. Overall, Naruto's placement (as well as the tier list as a whole) seems pretty spot on.

Also, any thoughts on the Naruto v. Tails matchup? Just played some great games with Chaos and it got me thinking about it. Also, I saved some of the matches, so if any of you guys are interested I'll upload them.

I have Naruto lower than the official tier list: I think the top tiers can outprioritize his clones and rush him down too effectively, and his recovery makes him vulnerable to punishes from the top-tier threats as well, like MK, Pika, ZSS, and Zelda. However, I think his strengths are in that he dominates the low-tiers, kinda like Sheik in Melee. He has some matchups where he can just shut down neutral and win, and that gives him great power as a secondary.

I hate it when people do this in general and I think its more disrespectful then taunting. You only really do this when you wanna make the other person feel like absolute s***. It's just really trolly.

Being better with the same character = Disrespectful?