Because Gilliam is a f*** badass.

So is... almost everyone else?

FE8 is easy enough you can use almost anyone, with or without the tower. But Gilliam has doubling problems, forever. That alone puts him far behind all other units.

(not like it matters, you can practically solo with Seth)

@talesoffan 17, huh? Thanks for telling me that.

I personally use Gilliam because every enemy so far that has faced him does no damage to him (I haven't used the Tower of Valni, and I promoted him at level 10). Also, as a General, I like the choices that he has available to him.

Level 10?

Actually, that's pretty effective. He'll be useful for quite some time, not all the way through, but that does change his contributions.

Dude, unless you have Amelia and knight her, he's the ONLY knight. And knights are a key class for most strategies, not to mention giving him speedwings is not important, but pretty damn useful. Hell, I find him more useful than Seth sometimes because he can get pretty godly if used right. Wyverns are about the only thing that can f*** him up, but that's why archers, snipers and Rangers were born right?

Also Equinox, use Neimi, level her to be a ranger, she, Gerik and Gilliam can be very effective in a team, have Gilliam block a passage, Neimi behind him pot-shotting everything, and Gerik protecting her from Flying Units that can get too close if she doesn't have a sword equipped.

Yeah, I know that part wasn't too smart, but at the time I only had access to the first level of the Tower of Valni, so I just used it while I could.

Hmm, Neimi? I currently have an Orion's Bolt, so okay, I'll use her. I'll have to do some extensive training in the Tower, but I can deal with it.

Neimi's really cool as a Ranger.

Why are Knights vital? I Garcia tanks just as well early game and has a better late game due to better movement and promotion options, less babying, etc.

Also LOLAmelia.
While I could give Gilliam a speedwing so that he doubles for a few chapters against a few enemies, I could play it better by giving it to Seth, so that he never stops doubling, or Cormag due to some earlygame issues. Or heck, essentially any combat unit with minor doubling issues uses that wing far better.

But, I don't don't believe I should argue, because I have been in the competitve FE community and my opinion is a bit more... edged then others.

Hey, I always say, if a tactic works, use it.

Also, Equinox, she's fragile in defence, so Protect her well. When She promotes, she'll have enough speed to fend for her own, except for Wyvern lords if they manage to pierce her.

Yeah, I believe I got that part covered. I already have her at level 8, so I'll continue with her, all while aiming to get her to, at the least, level 15 before promoting.

Well many tactics work.
So you have to evaluate it by other means.

Like turn counts. Using Seth cuts far more turn counts then Amelia for example.

Amelia's a bad example of a unit, out of the Ross, Ewan and Amelia, Amelia is the worst, mainly for her low speed, defense and Con, Ross can get past his Con problem, Ewan has one like all mages, unless you do something about it. But Amelia's will always be a problem, she can be fast, but she has little defence unless either given Dragonshields or used as a knight. But Seth is a good unit, not someone I'd rely on for tactics because of Archetype, but good for taking out far away enemies when needed.

While all the subs are extremely poor, I'd argue you have little idea what you're talking about

http://serenesforest.net/fe8/average/amelia3.html

30% defense is actually very high in the GBA FEs. The starting Armor knight in FE6 had 35% def.

Also, what does Seth being a Jeigen have to do with it? He literally has the best growth spread in the entire game and you can easily solo with him due to his amazing bases, that aren't far off from 20/1 Franz outside of speed, but by then Seth will likely be -/7 or higher. If quote of a man far greater at these games then I am:


"How do you describe Seth without repeating yourself? I don't know. Seth has every good quality from the below units, except perhaps the flying part, and then some more.

For one last time, we have a GBA Paladin, which means 8 movement, more WTC than most units (though he lacks axes), and the ability to ferry units around. This is backed up by the best availability in the game, beating even Eirika since she's not on Ephraim route, and then also the best combat in the game. With "pretty good" bases (ridiculous for his join time, of course) and an A in both lances and swords, Seth can take down the most cheesy mooks with just Javelins, and the strongest bosses with a wide arsenal of more valuable weapons, most notably that Silver Lance he joins with.

For the most part, FE7 Marcus had this in the bag too. What makes Seth so ridiculous is that he has some of the best growths in the game on top of it all. 90% HP, 50% Str, 45% Skl, 45% Spd, 40% Def, 30% Res and 25% Luk keeps him going all game long as long as he gets enough bosskills, and in an efficient playthrough it's pretty much impossible not to give him bosskills. Early on he's a tank and ORKO (often OHKO) machine because of his good bases, but he doesn't actually slow down one bit in any way. Wherever you move Seth, he leaves a path of destruction, which makes him the best unit for clearing the way to the boss (and the boss himself), or just taking out a portion of a rout map by himself.

Seth is so strong that if you use him to his full potential, you pretty much have no room to train anything else whatsoever. And this is fine for most maps, because there are plenty of units in this game that can function just fine at base level, or little EXP. Duessel, Cormag, Gerik, Saleh, etc. This style of play generally makes it desirable to make Seth even more broken by loading stat boosters on him, since he will doing almost all the fighting. Luckily, FE8 gives you an Angelic Robe AND a Dracoshield pretty early, minimizing Seth's *gasp* death chances.

One more thing I want to mention about Seth is that he gets to abuse 3x Mt slayer weapons, unlike for example FE7 Marcus or FE9 Titania. And unlike FE6 Marcus, he gets to have good accuracy with them. So whenever not even Silver or Killer weapons do the trick, Seth has access to an extra trick up his sleeve.

Why is he not #1, then? He dominates the whole game, right? Well, he definitely does that, but he has some very very tiny flaws. For one, there are chapters where he is not the most important unit, or not by far. Ch7 comes to mind, where it's Vanessa who transports him and Eirika over the river. Or just Eirika if she's strong enough, or any combat unit that can handle that place. Then there's the desert chapter where he is limited on where to go, and Ch20 which is like 70% forest, so he'll likely take a backseat to either fliers or Warpers. It seem almost unfair to "penalize" a unit for extremely minor things like this, but that's what it comes down to when you are this close to the top!"

You have just said everything I already know, And for one thing, Seth isn't a jeigen. Technically his archetype is an Oifey, which have the Stat growths Seth does, Fe7 Marcus is of the same archetype. But regardless, as with almost all Paladin archetypes, they are there for protection of weaker units, particularly the lords, until they can stand on their own 2 feet. The rescue feature point is invalid, since you have god knows how many cavaliers, Paladins and Great knights in the game, but I do agree, is is a very good unit to have. The only thing about him is how much his weapons will start costing you if you want effectiveness, A slim sword and Steel lance is $980, and you need those and the upraged weapons quite a lot. It costs a f*** load in the long run, since at the start your given 10000g or something (can't remember) at the start, that's nearly 1000 off the bat. plus an iron/slim sword for Erika, extra lances and swords for everyone, vulneraries, and god knows what else. That Silver lance isn't gonna run far if you abuse it, and you don't get another for a while. But don't forget Joshua AND Marisa have higher Skill and Speed that Seth, therefore much more critical hittage, and with an angelic robe and a dracoshield, they are indestructible. And with a few supports, get's upgraded to 75? Crit Chance. Gilliam also has a much better Luck percentage. Seth only really Shines with that extra 10% RES, helps a little, but not much considering his starting res stat is 8, still low for a promoted unit of any class. Amelia as a knight doubles anyway straight from lvl 1, speedwing or no. So she can shine just as much as Seth, but being a somewhat faster general with actual chances of crits and doubling.
Don't you dare tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

TL;DR
Stop Arena abusing and using the god damn tower, play with limited EXP and resources while trying to get the lowest turn count, tell me how useful Gilliam and Amelia are.