honestly it doesn't look like much more endlag than any other recovery has in the new beta.


it's not easy to punish at all imo, if you land with it on the floor the endlag is close to nothing and you have all of your defensive options available.
you either need godlike reactions + great positioning or a hard read.

your suggestion of making it a better kill move with less invulnerability sounds cool to me.

Actually I have a better idea for FW.
I noticed in 9b when Zelda teleports and reappears on the ground there's some end lag, but when she reappears in the air and lands there's almost no lag at all.

Why not just switch it?

When Zelda teleports and reappears on the ground give it only a tiny bit of endlag. That way FW can continue to be a mobility option for Zelda. And when she teleports into the air give it special landing lag so it's not unpunishable like people say.

They should also keep the distance the way it was in 9A/B. The distance nerf was OD tbh.

The landing lag does looks like that much honestly.

The thing is, if Zelda teleports and reappears directly on the ground, there really isn't a reason for it to still receive landing-lag, when she's already on the ground. And that teleports towards the ground are easiest angles to predict. There's 50/50 guess right now and it's still punishable if an opponent positions themselves in-between the best two possible angles. Now in SSF2B, I'm positive it that you can react to that 50/50 guess every time if the a ground teleport also has landing-lag.

It should be unsafe to teleport to ground from the air if they see it coming: forcing an edgeguard or juggle to a 50/50 guess every time makes Zelda difficult to edgeguard. You can still go to edge, go high on a platform, go high and fall to the ground, etc. You have options.

Tbh Zalo is right

There is no reason for Zelda teleporting to the ground to have land lag because if that was the case then it would be common for Zelda players to tele to thw ground and thus easy to predict. (Also tbh if the Zelda player has their tag on it becomes easier to predict Zelda soo).

If Zelda had landing lag on both air and ground reappearances then the 50/50 guess just becomes "Just look where Zelda teleports and punish her for it." It's not fair Zelda's recovery becomes so unsafe with her only option being to snap to the ledge or get punished. Which is Zelda's main problem in the official smash games.

Insult to injury the travel distance was nerfed. Limiting Zelda's offstage pressence and how deep she can go.

I support that if Zelda reappears in the air, she gets special land lag. That's fine.

But reappearing on the ground, and travel distance shouldn't have been nerfed this much.

You're forgetting that FW is also Zelda's main mobility tool. With griund land lag she won't be able to chase launched opponents, escape a bad situation, or use FW as an approach option.

Also you said people don't like that Zelda can also escape pressure so easily. Well back to what I said before, the simplest thing to do would've been to just nerf the hitboxes. Not the entirety of the move.

No it doesn't. 50/50? That's getting the correct punish half the time she's forced to teleport onto the stage. She's doesn't have many angles to aim Farore's Wind. She only has two safe choice to teleport, and that's what makes it predictable. It's not even a flip of a coin guess. Most time you can react to where she reappears, or follow her name-tag/Payer marker.

That exactly. That's been a problem for her since the begin. It's only been feasible in Smash 4 because of ledge-trump. It wouldn't be an odd nerf if it wasn't her only good recovery option.

If she's gets landing-lag on the airborne reappearance, that alone pushes Zelda to be more in favor to try teleporting on the ground most of time. Now that 50/50 risk of Zelda's options is more out of her favor, she'll be force use second option as her primary one and do it more often. Becoming even more predictable.

Escaping pressure doesn't become that much harder if you nerf the priority, if you can't chase Zelda down.

In this game, you can't reliably edgehog and catch a high recovery. If I can either go to the platform on ToS or the edge, you can't guard both. If I'm going to do the Marth thing where you just go past the edge or sweetspot, you can't reliably react to both options.

I agree that the travel distance shouldn't have been nerfed and I don't think that teleporting straight to the ground should have as much landing lag as specialfall, but I don't think that this patch's situation with FW's lag is really in line with the general tightening of recoveries. Besides, it's not like Zelda is a bad character, and so some nerfs had to be expected. I'd rather play Zelda with a worse recovery than a Zelda with nerfed onstage game.

Teleporting to ground does not have Landing Lag in Beta, if anyone's interested.

But in the SSF2 Day 1 beta gameplay we can clrealy see at 7:08 JCL's Zelda teleports, misses the ledge, reappears on the ground and has lag. He then got easily punished.

I think we meant to say endlag. Lol

Ah that makes sense. The endlag definitely seems more apparent in the air. I think that I noticed some extra startup on FW, however. Not that bad though.

Din's also seems a bit more controllable in Beta, maybe somewhere between 0.9b and 0.9a. Anyone notice anything different about Lightning Kicks? They seem the same, which I don't mind.

If you can't chase down Zelda, it must seriously be lag in play. I get punished all the time for being too preemptive with teleport at mid-range. There's a pretty big window to hit Zelda before the hit-box comes out and before she disappear.

Teleporting downward doesn't have landing lag, but missing the ledge is another story

How does FW work then @-@ what's the difference between missing the ledge and landing on the ground and just landing on the ground.

if you're on the ground by a certain frame you aren't affected by the landing lag, which typically happens when travelling downwards

So basically Zelda has to sweetspot FW towards the ground to not get landing lag?
O K