@ Code: We're talking about balancing in general.

Hmmm I agree with some of you guys saying about Wario. I do feel he needs some buffs to compensate for the changing metagame.

Hey jorrja, Welcome! I like your video, especially the part where you Wario Waft Fox when he Fires.

Yeah, Wario does have to rely on janky moves in order to win certain matchups. Hopefully that isn't the case in the next patch...

Awesome that you were a Content-Creator in 0.8b!


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Added a video to my notes, showing just how deadly Wario's combo potential is. Right here.

Utilized Chain Chomp in a combo. Wario players take note; not all Chain Chomps have to end in a Wariocide.




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I decided to replace the Matchup Tips in my notes with Matchup Ratios. They're in my notes, but I'll post 'em here too.

Matchup Ratios (Subject To Change)
{Wario comes first in each ratio.}
- vs. Mario | 45:55
- vs. Link | 40:60
- vs. Donkey Kong | 80:20
- vs. Kirby | 30:70
- vs. Samus | 40:60
- vs. Megaman | 30:70
- vs. Fox | 45:55
- vs. Ness | 40:60
- vs. Pikachu | 20:80
- vs. Sonic | 65:35
- vs. Peach | 40:60
- vs. Wario | 50:50
- vs. Zelda | 35:65
- vs. Sheik | 45:55
- vs. Meta Knight | 10:90
- vs. Zero Suit Samus | 40:60
- vs. Bomberman | 40:60
- vs. Captain Falcon | 40:60
- vs. Black Mage | 10:90
- vs. Jigglypuff | 35:65
- vs. Tails | 45:55
- vs. Yoshi | 75:25
- vs. Marth | 10:90
- vs. Lloyd | 35:75
- vs. Chibi Robo | 45:55
- vs. Sora | 40:60
- vs. Ichigo | 50:50
- vs. Naruto | 55:45
- vs. Goku | 35:65

Please explain yourself. *flies away*

Sorry, but are you sure you know what a 90-10 matchup is? Those are virtually unwinnable (as in you can just sit there and do one move and win, they can't do anything about it) and there is no way that Wario has 3 10-90 MUs.

A 90-10 or worse MU is so bad that a counterpick is nearly forced, like Sheik vs Bowser in Melee or Ice Climbers vs Ganondorf in Brawl, not Wario vs Meta Knight (which, even if it is a hard counter, is not that bad). A game this balanced probably has no such matchups.

Outside of the 10:90s, I found the 35:65 Goku to be the most alarming. How is that possible?

"This game is balanced"


*Considering shooting myself*

Well, lets say ssf2 players are compared in levels. If a level 100 Marth faces a level 100 Wario it really is virtually unwinnable. The only way most people lose to doof's wario with Marth (From what I hear) is lack of awareness of the MU or not really knowing how to deal with a Wario. So if you know how to beat Wario and know the MU you should win.


....but then again theres that 10% you can lose so meh.

shoot yourself up with some tech skill syringes bc if ur not bad it is balanced

There are definately no 90:10 matchups in SSF2. Hell I can say with confidence that there probably arent any 80:20s either. (although I can concede that theres probably a handful of 75:25s)

I mean there's always room for improvement of course (obviously with my infinite whining), but the game is relatively balanced at this point.

This game Obviously isnt balanced >_>

Hahaha

I wanted to join the funz. My personal MU list. Though I have to say, Wario only has advantage in these matches due to his "janky flaws" as the community might label them as. Chomp can be ridiculous at times, I agree. However, without chomp in it's current state, Wario will lose to almost every match up if he is not buffed elsewhere.

- vs. Mario | 45:55
(Slippery speedy mario has a little edge, but only slight)
- vs. Link | 70:30
(BAIT FOR DAYZ, even the best. Though his edge-guard is tough to get past)
- vs. Donkey Kong | 70:30
(Big target, ez chain of bites, down b's, down b spikes, waft etc.)
- vs. Kirby | 40:60
(Haven't played that great of a Kirby in a bit so it could be more in Kirby's favor)
- vs. Samus | 40:60
(Hard MU, difficult to penetrate his projectiles and hard to edge-gaurd)
- vs. Megaman | 35:65
(A great Megaman can work Wario off the screen pretty effectively)
- vs. Fox | 45:55
(Fox can be gimped early, Wario can be comboed to death)
- vs. Ness | 60:40
(Purely based on experience, haven't lost much to the top Ness players, but very close games)
- vs. Pikachu | 50:50
(Fairly even, two cheap tactics against each other. Chomp combo against Pika's inability to snap to ledge; Pika's thunderbolt spikes against Wario)
- vs. Sonic | 65:35
(Priorities)
- vs. Peach | 40:60
(Side b and jump chomps wreck peach, but she does have aerial priority. If she wanted to she can just throw turnips and shield-grab all of Wario's approaches too)
- vs. Wario | 50:50
(Never ditto another Wario, punch yourself in the nuts for 8 minutes instead)
- vs. Zelda | 30:70
(Zelda will sit back and shield grab when Wario attacks, lamest MU ever)
- vs. Sheik | 40:60
(Knock-back and aerial range gives the advantage)
- vs. Meta Knight | 25-75
(This one is reallllly hard. I do have a winning record vs top MKs, but I think they were not playing their best those days)
- vs. Zero Suit Samus | 40:60
(Zs has a little edge in the combo/range game, but Wario can bait and combo back)
- vs. Bomberman | 65:35
(Don't let this idiot make bombs, please)
- vs. Captain Falcon | 50:50
(Very even, a good falcon can combo to death, but Wario can chomp edge-guard and combo to a risky but more predictable down spike)
- vs. Black Mage | 35:65
(Meteor spam for days makes it annoying. Once you do get a hit off he will sheild grab or run away because Wario is slow AF. Wario easily gets caught in smashes, side b's grabs, etc.)
- vs. Jigglypuff | 55:45
(Almost as annoying as a Wario ditto, but I still think Wario has a slight advantage)
- vs. Tails | 40:60
(Tail's 50 combo options vs Wario's 3 moves; bair, nair, chomp. Side B is usually out prioritized and you can't always rely on Waft)
- vs. Yoshi | 75:25
(Bair goes through most of Yoshi's attacks and can bait him. Chomp guard 4 dayz)
- vs. Marth | 20:80
(Arguably Wario's worse MU. A bad Marth is baited and torn to shreds. Good Marth's are unapproachable and will combo you to death with massive range/power/speed)
- vs. Lloyd | 25:75
(Lloyd is the king of ez-mode. His move-set is too versatile and powerful)
- vs. Chibi Robo | 60:40
(Wario air-weaving really takes the win on this one)
- vs. Sora | 35:65
(Sora is annoying. Only a pro Wario will win this one, but with much effort)
- vs. Ichigo | 60:40
(Bait this fool out like Link and he isn't so bad)
- vs. Naruto | 65:35
(Just side B or Bair through his clones and chain chomp combo him. He can't do anything but body camp and neutral B spam)
- vs. Goku | 65:35
(The chomp ledge-guard is toooooo easy)