Sora v Marth is IMO Marth's best MU and Sora's worst. Everything Sora has is either punishable or get stuffed by Marth's sword. Marth can edgeguard Sora but Sora can't really edgeguard Marth. Sora has a punish game, but unless you can kill Marth (which would be difficult) it doesn't matter, and Marth can both combo and kill Sora.

Marth vs. Sora is terrible. Do you think it's the worst matchup in the game?

nah, most characters who dont have swords do MUCH worse vs Marth than Sora. Like Peach or Jigglypuff or Wario

Saddest MU imo is Wario vs. MK/BM. There literally is nothing Wario can do.

Back to topic, I kinda feel like Samus has an even MU with her suitless form. It just feels like Samus´s spacing game is enough to maintain her needed distance in that MU, but Im sure that someone will tell me otherwise.

@SkaiPrower I think the matchup is in ZSS's favor.

I remember when Link was horrific low tier. Now he's an A ranking tier. Oh the satisfaction of defeating high tier players is gone...

Yeah, > , clearly.
Samus has the infinite chain grab on Fox, has extremely easy combos on Fox (dtilt => dtilt => zair => dtilt or things like that) which make a lot of damage, and her edgeguard on Fox is just amazing, using neutral b / missiles / dsmash / the combos onstage if Fox comes back, she can kill Fox everytime he is offstage, even at low%.



Yeah, I dont really agree with that. In my opinion the matchup is in ZSS' favor, but not by that much.

I'd like to add to Sekanor's analysis of v , adding that a major boon for is that, unlike many chaingrabs on in Melee, flat stages are not the only ones that support the chaingrab, because it doesn't require to move and it goes under some platforms (Dreamland's) until fairly high percents (~80% in Dreamland's case), and also has good followup options even once on a platform (even a continuation if you read the getup option). It's much more devastating than on or on , for example, and dash-away pivot-grab is a deadly counter on many stages that can result in stock loss from a single bad nair, with little risk unless you get read hard. You should really never lose the counterpick if you're good enough at the chaingrab that you can reliably do it to death, because Fox can't avoid a stage where the chaingrab is a problem (although really it's a problem on any stage except Smashville).

Kirby beats the hell out of the bird man.

Ive also had pretty good experiences using chibi vs marth/lloyd

but ive been gone for like ever so dont mind me

First I was like "Falco isn't in SSF2" then I'm like "oh I think he means Falcon." As for the analysis, sure if Kirby ever manages to hit Falcon.

Chibi vs Marth/Lloyd? I'll speak from my experience in the Marth MU because I don't know Lloyd, but IMO Marth pretty handily beats Chibi. Marth's punishes are soooo strong because tipper, nair, and fair kill super early but Chibi falls quickly enough to be juggled easily. Chibi doesn't really have a punish game besides two-hit grab combos to be honest, and Chibi can certainly kill Marth but without easy edgeguards and assuming the Marth can stay level with Chibi or below him, it's gonna be rough to KO. Neutral is the one good part of the MU because Chibi has disjoints, but Marth has the tools to get in (see: Marth v Lloyd, Marth v DK).

I think if the Chibi really abuses the laser he might be able to deal with Marth quite well in the neutral. Punish game is REALLY lacking tho.

Problem with laserspam is that even if every single one connects Marth still can approach. Lazer has too low stun to actually stop foes in their tracks unless really high %. IMO that MU is pretty easy for Marth. More range better kill options, better juggling etc. Chibi has his usual problems that dont help him here either.

Does sora have any positive matchups? I have almost no doubt that he isn't the worst character in the game right now

I think Sora beats Kirby and Wario.