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Manta's Backroom App 
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Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:46 pm
Posts: 173
Country: United States (us)
Name (aka Handle):
Manta

How old are you?:
19

Which characters do you play in SSF2? Why do you play these characters? (Note: do not list characters that are not currently in the game):
(In order of play frequency)
Chibi Robo: He's agile and has great combo starters and a strong aerial game for zoning. His amazing grab range puts great pressure on opponents in neutral and on defense, stuffing ground approaches. Overall, I love his ability to get in and combo and convert for KO or easy edgegaurd. Also, that toothbrush recovery...

Zero-Suit Samus: Similar to Chibi, her speed and strong response options are great. Though not as grab-centered, her ability to toss the opponent around like a bean-bag is stellar; plus, compared to Chibi, she has more kill conversion options, which is great for closing out an opponent quickly. Also, catching projectiles makes him the perfect counter to Link and Samus among other projectile users.

Naruto: My first main, I love Naruto's side-B and easy jab-reset combos. That combined with down throw combos gives him great combo game and the nature of his projectile priority lets him control the stage horizontally. I began playing him less simply because his moves are stubby and require precision and he lacks kill power outside of neutral-B.

Black Mage: Gimmicky and silly, I love pulling this guy out when a fast-paced, combo-oriented game isn't doing the trick. I play Black Mage mainly as a counter-pick because of his strange move set and long lasting forward smash. His side-B gets through shield and puts huge pressure on the opponent when they go defensive and his meteor makes for a great recovery shield.

Samus: Also a niche counter-pick character, but still quite loved nonetheless. Missile canceling and generally being a tank are two very great feelings. Samus has strong 2-hit combos and good zoning tools with missiles and bombs. Also, she can kill convert quite easily off power beam, missiles, and back air.

How much experience do you have with official Smash titles? (SSB64, Melee, Brawl. Include in this answer which characters you play/played.):
I've played every smash game from it's origination. Smash 64 is what I grew up on (DK, Mario)

I switched to Melee as soon as it came out in 2001 (Ganondorf, Dr. Mario) and I played that even beyond Brawl coming out.

I began playing Brawl as soon as it came out in 2008 (Ganondorf, Snake, Ike, Captain Falcon) but very quickly disliked the pacing of the game and moved back to Melee.

When Project M was first being developed I hopped on board and played Ike and Ganondorf. Once 3.0 came out, I mained Roy ever since. He's my tournament main and Project M is the main Smash title I play now. I no longer play Melee consistently or in tournaments. Project M and SSF2 only now. I've had the pleasure of receiving tutorage from Dark Sonic in Roy play-style and general fundamentals for Project M in general. I play very similar to him in terms of manipulating neutral and having a very strong offensive game and movement game. I am very observant of how Sethlon plays Roy as well. I have adapted their play-styles to fit my own to create a very strong mental game in any Smash title with a good balance of offense and defense through good reads and strong movement.

Have you ever attended any Smash tournaments? If so, give some details about the tournament (number of participants, which games, etc). How well did you place?
I consistently play at Smashfests put on by the CFL Melee group (Central Florida Smash community, one of the strongest in the nation) and have attend weekly and monthly tourneys put on by the UCF Gaming Knights (tournaments are live-streamed and consistently feature highly competitive players).
Participants range from 10-30 depending on if it's weekly or monthly. I only play Project M competitively now. I placed in the middle of the bracket, averaging a 2-2 or 3-2 record in double elimination consistently.

When did you start playing SSF2?
I began playing SSF2 back in v0.8 but didn't find the controls or gameplay to be intuitive so I left; I came back on the tail end of v0.9a in early July and began to really enjoy the game and get a handle for using the keyboard (at least until I get a Gamecube controller adapter). Now, I play consistently in v0.9b, especially online.

What is your favorite stage in SSF2? Explain.
My favorite stage is tied between Yoshi's Story and Pokemon Stadium 3.
I love Yoshi's Story because the platforms are spaced better than in Battlefield, so I can maneuver and control them better for my own play-style. Also, small walls, low ceiling, and shallow floor makes for very easy KO's from low-percent off-stage attacks or moderately powered grabs/smashes.

Pokemon Stadium 3 is tied because the way the platforms are allows me to play dynamically different but within the confines of my comfortable style. I find this stage to be much to my liking if I pick ZSS because I like having more ground space to come down onto.

Who, in your opinion, should be placed first on the SSF2 tier list? Under competitive settings why would this character perform on a higher level than all others?
DK hands-down. His tilt and grab range makes him a menace in neutral and heavily punishes overextended approaches. He has solid combos and plenty of KO options that aren't too difficult to land or set up/read into. Also, having super armor on his neutral-B and up-B means he has probably the safest recovery and most low-risk/low-percentage KO move in the game. Being able to tank edge-gaurd attacks and punish approaches with a 60% death is very scary and absurdly powerful, even without the rest of his kit which is really good already.

Who, in your opinion, should be placed last on the SSF2 tier list? Under competitive settings why would this character perform on a lower level than all others?
Tough question since most of the cast is solid and at the very least mid-tier (so to speak). I would say Bomberman is the worst. What differentiates him from other characters* I would consider bad is that he has no effective projectile and is very sluggish both in move set and in general speed. The control offered by bombs is great, but his kit is centered on that and without them he can barely compete. His smash attacks are virtually useless and his tilts and aerials don't combo well (except maybe up-tilt, but you can jump away unless you're a heavyweight). If he doesn't have bombs on the field, he's terrible. Plus, having his side-B and down-B function completely on bombs, they become dead moves if he has none out, and when he starts to drop them, he can't dash and the move takes so much time that he's an easy target for the duration. He has good potential, but his niche bomb game and sluggish build makes him bottom tier.

*Goku (poor combo game w/o kaioken), Ness (stubby and light), Naruto (low kill power)

If you could make only one change to SSF2 as it currently is, what would it be and why?
I would work on finding a way to incorporate wave-dashing.

I don't say this just because I don't like not having it or I think the game is too slow. The pacing is great.

I say this because the game has poor spacing right now. Because of how priority is currently, the match favors the best spacer, baiting out bad approaches rather than competing with them and then punishing. Currently, there isn't a good way to do that effectively. That's mainly why I play the characters I do (Chibi and ZSS apply, not the others) because they are quick to move around the map and have great punish options with long range forward smashes and great aerials.

I understand if the game controls don't lend themselves to it, but I think it will make play much more dynamic, because right now it's a lot of bland, 1-diminesional neutral play from most of the cast. They all have that niche way to approach and they go do it. Adding in another dynamic to movement game will give a lot of power to some rather sordid characters and bring in line some characters that can simply overwhelm their opponent (Sonic, DK, Ichigo). It makes things like dashes and teleports less effective and easier to deal with, which will make a lot of other characters highly competitive in the right hands.

What is your view on items in competitive play?
Wouldn't want to play in that tournament even if you payed me.

But honestly, I've always felt that items provide too unfair of an advantage to the wielding player. How would you decide what's a broken item and what's "competitively viable"? What if one character is supremely broken with an item but horrid otherwise? How do you reconcile that and keep the competitive community functioning?
Playing 1 v 1 against a player based solely on the characters both I and the opponent have is a much more deserved victory and a much more fair loss. If I lost to a Poke Ball, I really don't think my opponent is great, I merely think they have good luck getting the item and getting something good.

Items are better left out of competitive play.

Do you have or can you download Skype? You don't need a mic or webcam.
I can certainly get a Skype account.

Why do you want to join the Smash Flash Back Room? What will you contribute? Why are you an exceptional applicant? Be as detailed as possible.
I feel that I have a very strong understanding of Smash fundamentals that easily lend themselves to having honest, well-thought input on the direction this game takes. I'm composed, analytical, and smart. I can understand a character's strengths and weaknesses without being lost in emotional attachment to being right or wanting a character to be nerfed simply because I got beat.

I've observed the pros for some time and am engaged in the Smash community. I know the game and can take that knowledge and use it to help shape the new ideas that are being produced here. This game has great potential, and I see a lot of what could take this game from good to great, something people play when they're away from a console Smash, to something they'll choose over console Smash titles. I have an eye for the finer details that take a game from functioning to flourishing. This is an amazing start, but there are some edges that need smoothing, and I have a talent for that. I would be a great addition to have in the back room giving input on where this game goes and the potential it has.


Additional information (Include in this section anything relevant to your application. This could include links to videos of yourself playing.)
I have forum postings under "Huge Issue with Ichigo" and "DK Super Armor Needs Limits" if you'd like to see example postings from me. I also have a reply in "SSF2 Suggestions" on tweaking Lloyd. These are a few examples of what I look for in the game that need fixing or would bring a character in line with how the mechanics are currently. I could do this for every single character if asked to because analyzing is what I love to do, and I give a thoughtful, compelling argument for what it is I see.
Thank you for considering me for the SSF2 back room.


Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:05 am
SSF2 Developer
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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:47 pm
Posts: 2316
Location: BC
Country: Canada (ca)
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Complacency breeds weakness. My opponents won't stop getting stronger, neither will I.
1) Please discuss the Naruto-Bomberman matchup. Please be detailed in your response and include viable options available to both characters such as projectiles, pokes, KO moves, etc. Please also give a ratio in the form of 60/40 or +1/-1 to show who wins.

2) You are playing as ZSS against MK. Using the current stage list found here, what stages do you strike before game 1? Then, assuming you win, what stages do you ban and then what stage do you expect the MK to counterpick?

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Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:30 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:46 pm
Posts: 173
Country: United States (us)
1.) This matchup tends to favor Naruto in neutral because of his projectile game, but Bomberman has access to better kill potential. I've outlined both characters' main strategies here and after will discuss the win ratio.
Naruto's Gameplan
Pressure in Neutral
Naruto should focus on projectile spam whenever there is space. His side-B covers great space and is a bread-and-butter combo starter, especially since Bomberman has such a great combo weight for Naruto to play around with.
The basic premise of side-B use in the matchup beyond starting combos is to constantly pressure Bomberman and keep him from laying strong bombs or getting a kick-detonate combo out (or combo off it successfully). Since Bomberman has no horizontal mobility beyond dash speed, it's very easy to zone him out with such an awkward projectile trajectory. It covers short-hop options and forces roll, shield, or high jump options with down-air or neutral-air.
If Bomberman manages to get in Naruto's space and stay aggressive, jumping back and tossing out down-B dissuades aggression and opens up combo opportunities to turn momentum back in favor of Naruto since the move covers both sides of Naruto and has such great priority.

Combo Options in Offense
When side-B connects or Naruto pushes into Bomberman's space, nearly all of Naruto's kit becomes viable options now. The best option is to move in with dash attack given it's a great knock-up combo starter for Bomberman's weight. This can be up-tilt chained or grab-chained into down-throw --> back-air combo.
At low percent, up-tilting and and using shuffled neutral airs or tossing out down-B out of dash attack build percent quickly while keeping Bomberman close, opening him up for roll-reads or grabs on shield depending on Bomberman's response to early combos.
Down-throw is a great option to force a tech or getting a free back air if the tech is failed, allowing for a great pressure grab game on top of dash-attack getting in close to achieve a grab.
Naruto mainly must make use of his dash-attack or side-B to compensate for very short reach and high precision moves to start combos. Once one of those two moves connects, he's free to dash in with other combo-extenders.

On the Defensive
When Naruto is being pushed off-stage or juggled heavily, the main response is to clear landing space with down-B and stay in neutral and away from bombs through spaced side-B until an opening for dash attack forms or side-B connects.
When aggressed on, Naruto's focus is to jump out and create space with down-B or up-tilt to cover space around himself and open up other response options to follow up.

Getting the Kill
Since Naruto is fairly limited in reliable kill conversions, all combos should always lead to one of two options beyond 70%.
First, and best option, is to hit-confirm a fully charged neutral B. During lower percents, back-throw into a small charging window is an effective way to build damage and guarantee safe charge.
Second, and a bit harder to rely given the option to tech, is down-throw into back-air. Because of Bomberman's weight, this reliably sets up till well over 120%, giving Naruto a large range to keep hoping for a failed tech; also, given Bomberman's weight, the back-air has a semi-spike trajectory that effectively kills Bomberman simply due to horizontal distance that he can't cover.
*Note: Forward smash is a viable option for the same reason as back-air, but there is not a reliable way to set up for it beyond catching a roll or failed tech, but that can lead to overextending and being punished hard by back-throw or down-throw.

Bomberman's Gameplan
Breaking the Neutral
Unlike Naruto, Bomberman really does poorly in neutral in this matchup. With no projectile spam, Bomberman suffers at long range since he has no competitive response to side-B spams or down-B approaches in the air, nor does he have a solid lingering hit-box to dissuade dash-attack approaches.
This means Bomberman needs to focus on dissolving the neutral game with bomb placement, typically on available low-level platforms (covers more vertical space) and towards the middle of the stage or near himself as a defensive response. To achieve this, shield-grabbing into back throw to create space or spacing back-airs, forward tilts, and dash attacks will push Naruto away for enough time to get a level 1 or level 2 bomb down and possibly kicked into position depending on the percentage Naruto is at.
With 2-3 bombs out and spaced, Naruto is now nearly always dancing in a danger zone. If he plays too offensively, he gets bombed easily. If he plays too defensively, Bomberman can get in and grab on shield or force a bad roller option.

I'm in, so now what?
The main idea of breaking the neutral game with bombs is that Bomberman creates a presence that he's always on the offensive and he can always score a hit or two. With this mental fear pressuring the opponent, it is much easier to find an opportunity to down-tilt or dash attack into space.
Once there, the focus is in grabbing into down-throw --> forward air combos, up-tilt into up-air --> up-air juggles and neutral air to zone wake-up responses.
Also, back-throw or back-air into other bombs to extend combos or kill convert (depending on the bomb level) are great options if bombs are available. Mainly, get Naruto off-stage to lay bombs as edge guard or lay a level 3 in prep for kill conversion.

On the Defensive
Bomberman's defensive response is forward-tilt to poke out dash-attack and back-air to out-range any of Naruto's aerial options.
If under projectile spam, focus on backing off to get a level 1 bomb tossed and kicked to score a hit or put Naruto in shield, opening a strike opportunity.
Shield-grabbing into back throw is a very potent option for creating space to lay bombs or get Naruto off-stage to be ledge-guarded.

Getting the Kill
Bomberman has more reliable kill options compared to Naruto.
Level 3 "P" bombs kill reliably over 90% depending on DI, and back-throw at ledge over 80% can gimp or kill based on DI.
Down-throw chains into forward-air even at higher percents, and getting the heavy hit for forward-air can kill at over 80%, especially off-stage.

Weakness of Each
So I've detailed how I would approach the match with each character but I really glossed over the big weakness that each character has that should be taken advantage of.

Naruto
Precise, short melee moves, can be zoned out.
Poor combo out of grabs (down-throw can be teched)
Few KO options that are reliable
Low stagger/knockback on most moves
Great combo weight, light character weight (easy to rack damage and KO)

Bomberman
Few fast defensive options
Hard to pressure opponent without bombs out
Hard to connect smash attacks
Awkward dash attack with long down-time
Poor horizontal recovery
Poor aerial approach options

All in all, I'd give this matchup 70/30 to Naruto because he has a much better neutral game through projectile use and much better approach options leading to quicker KO attempts.
Also, charging neutral B and hit-confirming it for KO is very easy to do, and once it's done once, it can be nearly fully charged immediately after, ready for another 60% KO.
Bomberman's ability to deal with Naruto's speed and projectile game is very poor and it's hard to turn the tide of momentum once it's lost.

2.)Given the current striking rules (I would strike 6 stages if striking first) I would strike Final Destination, Tower of Salvation, Nintendo 3DS, Dream Land, Mirror Chamber, and Smashville (omitted if striking 2nd). The reason for these strikes is common actually. All these stages are generally flat, large, and have large off-stage boundaries (and besides Tower of Salvation and Mirror Chamber, all can be glided under to do coast-to-coast recovery). I'd like to address stages on a specific level, too:
Final Destination -- Meta Knight has free reign on aerial approach options and recovering high without worry of edge guard from a high platform. Because of this ease of recovery and ability to go under the stage, Meta Knight can edge guard freely and deep without fear of not recovering.
ToS -- Same reason as FD, but the platforms allow me to edge guard high and kill off the top at lower percentages. These benefits do not offset the lack of platforms in the center.
Nintendo 3DS -- Same reason as FD, but stage is easier to fly under
Dream Land -- Though it has platforms, Dream Land is large and has a huge ceiling, meaning Meta Knight can survive ceiling KOs and coast-to-coast KOs and recover very high. Also, the stage can be flown under and the curvature of the ledge can be used to gimp ZSS from grabbing ledge or using an awkward wall-hit angle to gimp her.
Mirror Chamber -- Given the low floor and small side-boundaries, ZSS will have huge troubles surviving off-stage. Meanwhile, the high ceiling and very high platforms are great places for Meta Knight to come in at or guard on, especially since ZSS cannot grab to them.
Smashville -- This could go either way. The moving platform blocks aerial approaches and forces Meta Knight to approach low which is easy for ZSS to repel with side-B and forward smash spaced or grabs, but the same thing applies to ZSS and it becomes hard to put on vertical pressure. Also, the platform can be used to tech on to prevent juggles at low percents or ZSS up-B pulls. If there are only five strikes for me, this one is not struck.

I'm still a bit confused as to how many stages I ban given you ban one each match for counter pick (unless the counter pick ban is based on PM and Melee rules of ban 3). If it's ban 3, I'd ban Lunar Core (the stage is huge and the stairs can be recovered through, giving MK more options to recover and great vertical space to move through), Mirror Chamber (already listed), and Nintendo 3DS (already listed) and expect MK to pick FD; he can easily push ZSS across the stage with combos and there are no platforms for ZSS to break out of combo and escape to. Also, without platforms, it's much easier for MK to float high and avoid forward smash, side-B, and projectile, rendering them ineffective.
If it's single ban, I ban Mirror Chamber and expect Lunar Core since MK has more recovery options through the stairs and the platforms are too high for them to be very effective for ZSS. Also, the irregular level of the main platform makes projectile, side-B, and forward smash even less effective. It'd be an aerial spacing match, but MK can stay airborne longer and has better combos/kills in the air.


Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:32 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:46 pm
Posts: 173
Country: United States (us)
I clarified a small bit on my explanation of Tower of Salvation so it makes more sense. Hope you guys are still considering my app :mrgreen:


Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:40 pm
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