Well here's my new personal changelist.


Buffs

+ 1st hit of Jab has 1 more frame of hitstun, 2nd hit of Jab has 2-3 more frames of hitstun.
+ Side Tilt has at least 50% more Power, and more pushback when Shielded.
+ Up Tilt lingers a little longer and has a sourspot while lingering.
+ Down Tilt has its hurtboxes fixed by not extending past his finger by a couple of pixels.
+ Side Smash has much less startup, around 1-2 frames at most, and has 50% more Power.
+ Up Smash has 0 selfhitstun, and 1-2 more frames of hitstun.
+ Down Smash resembles PM Dsmash, which gives Wario more time to tech chase.
+ Up Air has 20-30% more Power, and has its sourspot replaced with more sweetspot.
+ Down Air resembles PM Dair. Alternatively, it resembles Brawl Dair.
+ Shoulder Bash increases to 5-7 Priority, and only lasts as long as the hitboxes last. Also gains armor during the startup.
+ Corkscrew sweetspots the ledge whenever Wario is right next to it (unless he's holding down).
+ Grab has much less startup.
+ Pummel is faster.
+ Wario isn't affected by the "move used in air = reduced air acceleration" rule.

Nerfs

- Dash Attack has 1 more frame of endlag.
- Chomp loses momentum when used in the air, victims can break out of Chomp faster, and the closing bite deals only 6% instead of 11-13%.
- Down Throw reduces its Power even more, from 60 (iirc) to 30.
- Neutral Air's 2nd hitbox has less Power.

Equals

= Forward Air resembles Sm4sh Wario's Forward Air.
= Backward Air resembles PM Wario's Backward Air.
= Levels 4 and 5/HUGEBOOM have unique indicators that each cause Wario's body to blink a certain way.
= Shoulder Bash doesn't last as long as it does now.
= Forward Throw resembles PM Forward Throw, but without the charging mechanic it has.

Some thoughts:

* You do realize that at lower levels (hell, maybe at high levels), people will spam the s*** out of Shoulder Bash now that it has armor on startup and more priority? I would rather have it bounce off of shields than buff the rest of it.

* I'd rather have dthrow as a tech-chase throw than as a semispike, regardless of the power.

* I think our bair is cool. What don't you like about it?

* By the Corkscrew change, do you mean Brawl sweetspots or just normal Melee sweetspots with a larger magnet? Because the former would be really annoying to edgeguard.

* Why not just buff grab range rather than speed, so you can't be super liberal on his shield?

1: Shoulder bouncing off Shields would also be quite spammy. Giving it armor during the startup would sorta help with his approach game, since it's not that good against a lot of characters in the first place. I do agree that 5-7 is a bit high, but until Shoulder Bash has its hurtboxes and hitboxes fixed from switching (which sometimes causes even Priority 1 moves to outright stuff it instead of clank, like Jabs), and chars with Priority 3 Projectiles that give Wario a very hard time (BM Meteor; 3, and Samus Charge Shot; 5-7 are examples that totally shut Wario'approaches aside from Powershielding and sacrificing frames needed to punish, also due to his generally slow speed) are still present, Wario does need an option to deal with these big issues for him.

2: I'd rather force people to learn that Dthrow isn't superstrong like they've been preaching by cutting the power in half than change the throw and make it seem like they were right about false claims.

3: It's not that I don't like Flash Bair (I love it), it's just that it isn't what Flash Wario needs. PM Bair would give him a good spacing tool that's safer, can edgeguard better without foes SDIing out, and a pretty reliable aerial that can KO. Flash Bair is nice, but Wario doesn't need another short-ranged combo setup, he needs a safer tool.

4: I'm thinking like a mix of Brawl and Sm4sh sweetspotting. Like, starting from the middle of the move height, it can sweetspot the ledge for the rest of the duration, and the window for sweetspotting is a little bit higher above his finger. Dunno how else to describe it.

5: A longer, but slow grab would still not help him much in Shield, due to how slow the grab is. A faster grab would help his Jab resets be more consistent and improve his tech chasing game with it since the slowness dampers his chances tech chasing with it due to there being 2-3 frames free for the victim unless they're pretty close to Wario.

Does any other character have sweetspots like that? That's a major buff to his recovery in this game (which has edges of death for everyone else). I get that right now people can just spam downward-hitting moves to edgeguard, but why not just give him a nice sweetspot like DK has on the later frames of Spinning Kong?

I guess dthrow is just the Fox main in me talking; I hate semispikes.

Why not just buff the speed of his grab slightly and the range (e.g., make it more like Mario's or Sheik's)?

1: Actually Spinning Kong's later sweetspots would be great for Corkscrew. Thanks for reminding me of that.

2: I think reducing the power would be fine, since victims are closer to the edge. Plus they won't get in tumbling hitstun as early.

3: Wario's generally got stubby limbs, so a short but speedy grab would make sense. Plus he could really use a fast grab, due to how slow he generally is.

I believe its been confirmed that all characters have the same grab speed, except tether-like grabs such as Yoshi,ZSS, etc.
Grab range increase by quarter to a half a metric jigglypuff length would be better IMO

Hell no all chars don't have the same grab speed. Look at MK, then look at Wario. Compare the speed.

Plus a faster grab would be much better than his grab being the same speed and leaving foes 2-3 frames while tech chasing. Plus he wouldn't be able to really shield grab most punishes if it stays as slow as it is now.

Just gonna start adding ratios in the format of #|# for each MU. Subject to change, so if you convince me to observe a MU again, there may be a change. Gonna be using 2 stages for comparisons, which are FD and BF. May add more stages to observe MUs on later.

vs 2|8 FD, 3|7 BF
vs : 5|5 <-> 4|6 FD, 5|5 <-> 3.5|6.5 BF
vs : 4.5|5.5 FD, 4.5|5.5 BF
vs : 4|6 FD, 4.5|5.5 BF
vs : 3|7 FD, 4|6 BF
vs : 2.5|7.5 FD, 3|7 BF
vs : 2.5|7.5 <-> 2|8 FD, 3.5|6.5 <-> 2.5|7.5 BF
vs : 4.5|5.5 FD, 5|5 BF
vs : 2|8 FD, 2|8 BF
vs : 3|7 FD, 2.5|7.5 BF
vs : 4|6 <-> 2.5|7.5 FD, 5|5 <-> 4|6 FD
vs : 1.5|8.5 FD, 1.5|8.5 BF
vs : 4.5|5.5 FD, 5|5 BF
vs : 3.5|6.5 FD, 4.5|5.5 BF
vs : 4|6 FD, 4|6 BF
vs : 4|6 FD, 4.5|5.5 BF
vs : 4.5|5.5 FD, 4.5|5.5 BF
vs : 3|7 FD, 3|7 BF
vs : 3|7 FD, 3.5|6.5 BF
vs : 4|6 FD, 4.5|5.5 BF
vs : 4.5|5.5 FD, 5|5 BF
vs : 4|6 FD, 4.5|5.5 BF
vs : 3.5|6.5 FD, 3.5|6.5 BF
vs : 3.25|6.75 FD, 3.5|6.5 BF

vs is borderline unwinnable on Wario Ware for wario imo
I think its important to include lel
wario wario wario

Ok, buddy needs a resprite. The only char on the roster who has noconfirmed resprite, its KILLING ME

This thread is so dead... And now that someone posts here, Doof will rip him apart kappa

How good is Autocancel Shoulder Bash as a mobility tool? I dont see Warios using it (nor do i see Warios at all), and I dont really know thats because noone knows about it or beause its just bad. On paper it sounds decent to me: You can go from hanging back in the air, moving backwards to an surprising approach option that has no lag and potentially kills/allows for followups/sets up for edgeguards.

I use it but it gets super predicable. Its mostly just a movement mixup but sadly one of wario's only useful movement mixups

Sora goes even with Wario.

If you're only saying this cause I said so, please don't cause I wanna rethink this whole Sora MU chart thing. You having you're own entitled opinion would be helpful so I can reconsider certain MUs and how they are. I'm not always right.

Keep in mind the date. I may have a few reconsiderations but I'm just too lazy to make edits right now. Plus, take note of the two stages I'm using for comparison; these aren't ratios for the general MUs.