Yeah, I try to be unpredictable about it sometimes (when I start to get read and they roll out of the way and punish or something) but honestly, it seems kind of broken if you just spam it. lol Like, just short hop pounce and use it. A lot. There's nothing I can think of any character can do except run away. And it combos into all his KO moves. Hulk hand (u-tilt), Haste (side b), up smash, side smash (if you charge Stop a little), short hop f-air, short hop d-air, AND grabs. And yeah, his f-tilt has godlike start up time. So much better than last version. And I used it a lot then too. haha

EDIT: LOL You beat the s*** out of him with that stick. That only works on AIs though because they'll just keep coming at you instead of trying to think up a new strategy like a human would.

I like using Stop and stopping it with shield. Makes it a lot more useful. (If only I knew about this when it came out in past demos.)

Here's a match between me and Nstinct



Thoughts on my Black Mage gameplay? (Note it was fairly laggy on my end)

Thanks for the trajectory tip on meteor by the way. It's so useful

I did not like the reach of the haste is too short.

In my opinion, it was way too long before, and if it were the same distance in this demo, i'd bet people would be complaining it as the No 1 Spammed Black Mage move online.



No problem!

So what does everyone think about Black Mage's B-air? I find it as a decent spacing tool as well as a edgeguarding tool and to finish my small combo's of U-tilt (Jump)> U-Air (Jump)> B-air. I think F-air is really nice in terms of range, but if I'm not mistaken, by using the move, his foot extends which means his hurtbox extends for that area where his foot is. On the other hand, with B-air, you're just poking out a knife so you don't really have an increase of hurtbox there, which is why i stick to using F-air only for combo's or random attacks.

BM's stop is so abusable cuz of it's hitbox. It doesnt reduce with the animation.
I wouldn't mind this if the hitstun wasn't on for so long.
It really needs to be nerfed :/

The hitbox retracts with the move, or that's what it looks like to me. If you jump in too early to punish you'll still get hit because it's still out a little. The hitbox is just long lasting. I agree though, it's broken and should be nerfed so that the hitbox is only active during the climax of the move and maybe a few frames when it's receding. It's nearly impossible to punish locally (at least when it's timed right and with the people I play against) because of the way it is now. It seems like it's either;

Use Stop and hit
Use Stop and miss and they go for a punish too early and just get hit anyway
Use Stop and miss and they don't go in for a punish from fear of getting hit anyway. But then you can just follow up with another stop. lol
or the least likely
They get the timing down and go for a punish at literally the last frames of the move and actually land the hit

2 tips I can think of

1 - You should try stop into grab. Jump in, Stop, grab, Poison. Great for racking damage and if you're near the edge and facing it that should throw them over and you can go for a spike.

2 - Use Meteor more, especially when coming back to the edge. Meteor is amazing and you can confuse people that are unfamiliar with the matchup by using the trajectory function of it. I like to use it normally (not holding forward or back) a lot in the beginning, then when they start to go in for punishes I switch it up and pull back on it. Then they get hit and it's like I'm punishing them for trying to punish. THEN when they start to read that trick and stay back near the edge (usually later in the stock around 60% or 70%), I run to the opposite end that they're on and start charging. They don't know if you're gonna go with a normal or short so they usually just play it safe and stay where they are, thinking it won't reach them from the distance they are at currently. That's when you surprise the s*** out of them and launch a fully charged one while holding forward and send it further than they think. Most people fall for it and get hit but some block or run towards you and to that you can just rush and jump in, Stop, grab, Poison. It's a been really successful tactic for me.

And as far as coming back to the edge goes, if you get knocked into one of the top corners of the map, charge one to slow yourself down (while holding forward to progress toward the ledge of course) and let it go about halfway through the charge so it acts as a decoy. Then they run away from it and towards the edge you're going for and then when you're about 1/2 or 3/4 of the way there you use a quick one this time to knock them back or make them run so you can safely grab the ledge or land on the edge. If they jump over the edge for the ko, just charge a meteor as you're going back and it'll knock them back without you even having to let go yet. Let go of it immediately afterwards though for an almost certain hit. Also a really successful tactic of mine.

Outside of Ichi's blur, I haven't encountered a campier play style than a Black Mage that runs away and jumps in with Stop. It's 1B as far as lamest moves go.

The really annoying thing is that when spaced well, it can't be spot dodged, shielded, or dodged by rolling to the other side of BM. The only thing keeping it from being broken is that the startup lag is super punishable.

Which is exactly why jumping in with it is so obnoxious, because the startup lag is eliminated in the process. There's really no option other than running away and resetting. It just needs a smaller hitbox and some cool down. It's absolutely humongous, especially considering how small Black Mage is. The startup lag isn't even a risk because the move is never used up close by people who know what they're doing. They're jumping in and getting a free move with zero cool down. Who wouldn't stop doing that?

If the hitbox was shortened and the extra frames were lag, then it would actually be punishable and it would fill a niche as a situational combo move or kill move with a charge, as opposed to a basically unpunishable approach for people without projectiles.

Then you can't combo into it, unless you give it extra hitstun.... That could work actually.

What if Stop did not carry momentum, and actually stopped BM in the air, similar to Haste?