In the early stages of a game's meta, nothing gets people going like a good ol' tier list. Discuss how you think a character's position may have moved in comparison to v0.9b, and how the newcomers fit into the equation.

Luffy is gonna be S tier once we all learn how to use him

Quick takes from today (probably all wrong in a week):

- Fox is mostly the same, probably slightly nerfed because of shine -> usmash being shakier, uair nerf, and weak bair a nerf against floaties.
- Puff is very strong: amazing airspeed, and slight Rest buff if I'm not imagining things.
- Peach hasn't changed much: no turnip throwing during float is a massive nerf.
- Falco is insanely good right now, but if people DI stuff well he might become much worse.
- Marth is still strong, just perhaps not as brutal against floaties like Puff
- Sandbag is anyone's guess, but I think combos into Bob-Ombs are pretty devastating even if you can't grab ledges.

Overall, I think the power level has increased slightly: what was A tier is now B tier. Feels pretty balanced, and, more importantly, super fun to play. Amazing job by the devs, who continually impress me.

I feel that Yoshi has dropped on the tier list imo. A lot of his mobility/recovery options have been nerfed (egg throw cant be spammed as often while in mid-air which reduces it's reliability as a recovery option, egg roll has a longer cooldown after usage and cant be used to stall in mid-air).

This is just first impressions, once everyone relearns how to play the game I'm sure things might change.

EDIT: It feels like his only kill option/combo is back air into nair. Other than his forward air being able to meteor, he lacks/lost kill options, since the rest of his aerials and his smash attacks (minus up smash, but the hitboxes are still as bad as they were in v0.9b) are just too weak in terms of KB and KBG. Down B is still useless in terms of power and utility.

Yoshi got Sora'd, nuff said.

It feels like Ichigo is very different now in terms of kill moves. His nair and upair have way less potential now, while smashes are significantly faster, probably good enough to combo into them. He might have risen on the tier list a bit.

I am really unsure about my two most played chars. Or about anyone I've played, for that matter.

This is so fresh and new.

This is exciting

Pits punish game is good, Falco is cool , Bowser is cool , Marth's aerials seems to come out faster so he's cool too(prolly still high tier), Ichigo feels different now(No clue what to say about him other the fact that he's faster overall and kills later overall and kb of his moves have changed and the windbox of neutral b seems to be gone) and DK is probably mid tier now

Mario isn't garbage now, yay

Wario has to be atleast mid tier. his absurd air speed allows him to safely poke and approach with bair and fair. and his tilts are amazing for punishes. his recovery is surprisingly good too.

Link is bad, all his good stuff from 9b got nerfed/removed and his bombs, whilst it was a good buff, isn't enough to save him.

I hate Sonic, but I can honestly say that he's improved...

Bomberman would have to be High or at least Upper Mid Tier
Having hitboxes on bombs gives him more offensive and defensive uses for his Bombs

Luffy is pretty weird, especially with having to use Down-B to recover
Having a pocket Luffy/Maining Luffy and having a Pocket might be difficult as one would need to remember that Luffy's Down-B is his main recovery tool and Up-B for the rest of the cast

Luigi seems like a low or bottom tier. Too floaty and slow in the air to land well, exploitable recovery and has a surprisingly hard time finding kills despite having some good raw kill moves and f-throw as a kill throw because of his mobility and few kill confirms.

Sheik and Zelda are probably somewhere in mid tier, which Sheik being better this time around. Both were nerfed pretty hard, Zelda especially. Sheik still has really good mobility, a functional grab game and good edgeguarding. She has a decent time finding kills, but doesn't kill very early unless she gets a gimp. Zelda's neutral actually seems a bit better with her new jab and d-tilt despite lighting kicks having a bit more landing lag. She doesn't kill nearly as early as she did and before, and her grab game is much less threatening than before with b-throw not killing until like 130% now. She can't really get an early stock off of a grab anymore without getting an U-throw -> F-air DI read. It's harder to combo out of N-air too and U-smash sucks as a kill move now, making her anti-airs not too threatening (doesn't help that U-tilt no longer kills now either despite being faster). Sheilda is probably upper mid tier or high tier this time around just above standalone Sheik.

I agree with the person who said Yoshi's worse off now, I think he's low tier or bottom tier. Having a f-air with more range is good, but his grab game kinda sucks now (and he already has a super laggy grab), he can't really kill, he can't stall in the air as long and I can't find anything super good about him yet.

Bowser seems very good. Bit of trouble landing since he's big and kinda floaty, but n-air, d-air and Bowser Bomb help him out a bit. He has ridiculous amounts of power with his U-throw of course having a great combo game at low-mid percents. Floaties die at like 50% to U-throw -> U-air. His f-air is also ridiculously strong with great disjoint as well. Fire Breath allows him to pose a threat from long range and steps up his edgeguarding a lot. It's very good against spacies and Ness offstage in particular. The autospacing/backward movement in the air after using it is also pretty helpful. Bowz also lives forever and has a decent recovery. I think he'll for sure be higher despite, not having the best startup speed on his attacks and having trouble landing sometimes.

Bowser is very strong, but playing him into Jiggs is a death sentence with rest being spammable and killing at 40%

Quick Gutcheck

New Characters
All of them seem immediately viable, GaW, Luffy and Pac-Man are the 3 worst but they definitely hold their own/aren't trash.

I think with more study, Luffy jumps up, Bowser might drop down.

Isaac, Luigi and Falco are kinda busted.

Old Characters:
Yoshi and Pika got took baseball bats to their knees, they both seem awful.

Kirby, Link, DK, Wario, Samus, all feel much better but aren't busted- but in general got better

The internal forces of smash are fixed, as Shiek is not only finally better than Zelda in this game...she's lowkey busted and is already top 5.

Marth/Fox/MK/ZSS/Falcon/Naruto still feel the same/aren't bad.

Mario, Zelda, Jigglypuff, Ness, Goku, Mega Man ALL feel weird as f*** compared to their old version.

Everyone else I haven't tried/don't play/idk what to do with.

Gutcheck top 5 after 48 Hours: Shiek, Falco, Luigi, MK, Bandanna Dee
Gutcheck bottom 5 after 48 Hours: Pika, Yoshi, Mario, Chibi, Goku

The only top 5 character from 9b that has actually become even better than he was before is Lloyd, so I won't be surprised if, with the changes he received, and the nerfs/non-changes to other characters in front of him, he becomes the top character in the game. He has everything now; combo ability, recovery, good kill moves, amazing speed, decent frame data on some attacks. The character's feeling like a beast compared to what he was previously.