Naruto's and Ichigo's recoveries aren't broken. That's the argument.

I don't see why a slight reduction of the startup on Grave Blade, a hitbox with range comparable to Hand Slap, and a slight endlag reduction and knockback trajectory change couldn't happen. You could just make the move into a version of Hand Slap that is dependent on reads and tech chases but has more followups.

Lagless up B aerials, side B, and no landing lag on dair need changes way before Grave Blade imo.

0 landing lag on dair is only if you space it well.
and yeah grave blade really isn't that good. you have a full second to react to it pretty much.

Grave Blade isn't good, but the hitbox is just silly. I'd rather it be a well rounded move with less startup/endlag and a proper hitbox, than bad one with a silly hitbox.


Lloyd does need some other changes, not much though (lagless Up b aerials is pretty silly).

No, Grave Blade is good. Really good, actually. The opponent can't whiff any laggy moves that leave them grounded and jumping in neutral becomes more dangerous than it otherwise would be. It just isn't broken. Ideally the move would be recoded to work as intended, but I'm not sure whether that's in the cards because it entails going about it completely differently. Baring that, a refined hitbox (it's exceedingly vertically generous at the moment) and better visual representation of the affected area would do wonders for it. Making it as thin as possible and just low enough to hit crouching Kirby and Jigglypuff when on the same level would fix many of the odd interactions that we experience currently.

Wouldn't this be a problem FOR ALL of those characters then? Why are you ONLY mentioning Lloyd with lagless up-b aerials?



D Air does have landing lag, it's just the silly hitbox it has that makes it a problem.

Gee Idk, maybe because this is the LLOYD THREAD

LOLyd.

I use Lloyd in a defensive manner. Should I play more offensive, mix it up, or am I okay?

If you play defensive, ppl will hate your guts but it's very effective. So I say do what works

(I'm not here to defend Lloyd or anything. Neither am I to discuss about his balancing , I'm too dumb for that lol.)
Fedora's balancing list is pretty legit , except he forgot that Uair doesn't have any landing lag either.)

[quote="Doof"]I use Lloyd[quote]
wat???
Could anyone tell me how many frames does it take to hit with Down-B and how many does get-up roll (don't know his name) take before you're vulnerable again?

Should sonic thrust be able to cancel projectiles you think?

I don't know , he already does. But it even cancels heavy projectiles such as Samus's Charged Shot and Naruto's Rasen Shuriken.

I know, what I'm saying is considering all of its other utility, despite it's weakness of hanging and being able to be struck from behind, should cancelling projectiles be one of its options?

I think its fine the way it is. Maybe not a full power Charge Beam, but the rest is ok imo. What happened to Tempest --> Random Special Move anyway?

uair doesnt need landing lag bruh