Dude I am not berating him, you are the one that needs to chill out. I was having a simple discussion with him if you were not reading.

1.I know he did and I understand his reasoning. However, someone's recovery is a main weakness for some, if not most, of the cast. So you can throw that JUSTIFICATION out the window. Asking for his recovery to be buffed isn't asking to much.

2.I am not justifying it because of the universal special move landing lag coming, I added that to my argument. Go back and re read what I said if you couldn't. What I was saying that Fox Illusion needed less lag on start up, ending and landing along with a larger ledge sweet spot. Also thinking Fire Fox could travel further or having a larger ledge sweet spot is not a hard concept to understand. I mean He can't really angel the move like he can in the main games, so that's why I want him to have a larger ledge sweet spot. I mean it's not that hard for Fox to have a slightly better recovery.

3.Everyone? lol No not EVERYONE, like you say thinks he is balanced. If you have not been reading the last few pages, than I don't know what to tell you. I am not sure where you got that information from.

4.Umm Fox was nerfed last demo even though people didn't think he was that good last demo. I said most likely would be nerfed, not most definitely. Also I edited my post to show that I read what he was saying and understood what he was saying. I also said I still stand by my opinion as he does his.
I comprised a list of Fox changes from last demo.
http://mcleodgaming.wikia.com/wiki/Fox_(Super_Smash_Flash_2)#Changes_from_v0.9a

Edit:
Okay I just want to know why people are so against Fox having a better recovery?

Its not like I am asking for Smash 4 Fox Illusion or anything.

god I hate discussing

1. I edited my post because I realized that I did go over board and I apologize to Code. Also those were not my exact words so please stop.

2. Ummm I didn't know what you were trying to get at by saying that Fox's recovery was his weakness when other characters also have problems in their recovery as well. So what I was getting at is that saying his recovery is his main weakness is a vague statement when most of the cast have this problem.

Yeah he does have a strong on stage presence, but asking for a recovery buff shouldn't be asking for to much. Just like with the stated above, that can be with a lot of characters. How many Fox's have you seen camp the neutral because I hardly see that if they're not playing around. I mainly see Fox players shoot a few lasers than go in.

3. Umm that's your problem. I didn't say lagless, I said have less lag on it. It's not hard to punish due to the start up giving an opponent enough time to react. This coupled with the ending and landing lag of the move gives the opponent enough time to punish it.

Sweet spotting with Fire Fox is really difficult to do with only 8 directions available and some stages mess that up for Fox. That's why I asked for a larger ledge sweet spot or at least for the move travel further.

4. Sure you didn't. Also I have never seen anyone say he is balanced so I have no idea what you were trying to accomplish by saying that nor where you got your information from.

5. He didn't end up being better this demo, what are you talking about? Him being higher on the tier list this demo doesn't make him better than he was last demo, anyone can see that. Yeah I know that, but asking for a little recovery buffs is not asking to much. He may be formidable on stage, but so are other characters so your argument doesn't hold much weight.

6. If you hate discussing, than why are you here? Don't come into the middle of a discussion if you hate discussing so damn much don't join and make the situation worse.

Kill yourself pls

I literally only entered this discussion bc you were being a** af to tcs now you're trying to discuss your useless fox buffs to me like I care. "WTF is wrong with you?"

tbh now I see why everyone hates you.

No thank you.

Lol I was trying to get my point across. I mis read what he said and reacted negatively. I apologized for it.

Is that suppose to mean something to me? People will hate me for one reason or another. So I don't really care. Even Kyoz or CSWooly get hate so I don't really care if everyone hates me.

Also it's fine Shine because I will always love you inside.

*sigh*

That's on the Fox's execution and player skill. No reason to buff something for the sole purpose of making it guaranteed. Granted, if it turns out that Fox's Uthrow sucks with DI enable, by all means make the move itself better. I just don't think it's necessary to assume that that will be the case.

Also, sheesh guys. Be nice to each other. We're supposed to be having fun discussing a video game.

What do you mean by making the move itself better? Give me your options.

I will with you guys. You guys are awesome.

I mean the full gamut: changing the base knockback, knockback growth, hitstun, etc. Whatever it takes to make the move good but not too good with DI enabled. Though I'm fairly confident that it will require only minor tweaks, if any. It would still be good in its current state even with DI.

"Kill yourself pls" Woah Zero_OR watch out Shine's got more debating power than a preteen period

smh af
idk why you're trying to kick a dead horse out of nowhere.

wtf are you talking about it was made today

bc me and zero stopped replying hence it was over idk why it being today doesn't mean it wasn't over

Because it's there to kick.

Boys, boys, theres plenty of me to go around.

Fox would be top tier if MK and ZSS weren't in this game.