ssf2 should only get a official tier list when online isnt garbage

I lol'd at this when I saw it. Of course you're not gonna get accurate results from CPUs, they only behave in one of two ways-- either they react faster than any human can and counter/tech things that should have been impossible, or they are extraordinarily self-destructive (Sora especially), sometimes flip-flopping between the two multiple times in one game.

I feel like that is way too crap without his fair, but it is overpowered. Last month I heard someone say that his foward throw had no followups, but he/she didn't know sonic is so fast that he can make the jump from one end of final valley(stage) to the other. Also has anyone noticed that f throw into fair into another can kill at 0?! I think he can also make it back on stage after!!!

inb4 meteor cancelling

DI

Just double jump and airdodge.

I like this idea the most. Exceptional, Good, Subpar tiers would be a good way to do it. Unfortunately, I still don't think it'll be that easy to come to agreement on certain placement. Hell, I don't even agree with a good portion of this example tier.

I don't like this saying. "This character performed well right, but it doesn't mean their good!" You could say this about any character, even assumed top-tiers, and it could still be true. There might be very specific example like Yosh that are ccrystal clear to judge, but for many others, it's not a vaild point to make when judging a character's future potential. Especially if you don't have a great understanding of a character yourself.

How do you get Beta characters with Tier list maker?

OMG THANK YOU!

I only exclusively say this for Fox, and I still place him at #1.... so not sure the gripe here. What I mean is that it won't be surprising to see Fox drop. In v0.9b he was the most represented/winning character in tournaments, but he wasn't ranked #1. And it was for simple reasons: outside of hyper-aggression his neutral was meh, his recovery predictable, and his weight detrimental in a situation where someone knows how to abuse it and manage tech chases. From v0.9b to Beta, Fox has gotten a bit slower. As a result, as players continue to optimize their punish games, Fox will only serve to suffer as his weaknesses will become more apparent.

And I only say this convincingly of Fox because he is consistently overrated. It's not rocket science that the most represented character in tournaments piloted by some of the best players in this game, in general, would consistently land in top spots/win tournaments. But those results must be normalized against the respective volume percentage of that character relative to everyone else. (i.e., if every character had equal representation, you could straight up use placements/wins as a metric of tier placement, but if there are 3 Foxes for every 1 Sandbag, let's say, then 3 tourney wins for Fox aren't inherently more meaningful than 1 Sandbag tourney win; the volume of presence increases the likelihood of that character showing up in the finals or taking a win home.)


Also, not sure if you're speaking in general or just making a gross assumption of my Smash experience/background based on misinterpretation of a singular statement.

pretty sure he is talking singular experience in a specific MU. such as Bandana Dee vs Sonic. We can all theorycraft it to hell, but not a single person has played the MU. I doubt even casuals have done it

Here's my take on the tier list. I know it's probably crap, and I'm a bit biased on some of the characters, but I did my best to analyse how each character plays in the metagame.

S - Characters that have good options in almost any situation. Their few weaknesses are overshadowed by their fantastic tools.

Example: Goku has great frame data and zoning tools, great mobility with his speed, float, and upB cancel, and solid combo and edgeguard game. He is a combo weight, but his neutral tools prevent that flaw from being too significant.

A - Characters with exploitable weaknesses, but with good tools comparable to those of S tier.
A+
A
A-
Examples: Falco has an amazing kit in every respect, but his low run speed, fastfalling, and worse disadvantaged state (compared to fox) make him combo food for those that can deal with his neutral. Mario is fast, has an upsmash and some other moves, and a good projectile, but he has range problems, and fireball can't cover everywhere. Lloyd has a sword and a good projectile to boot, but many of his attacks are telegraphed, and he doesn't have any incredible gimmicks or moves like characters in A or A+.

B - Characters with either lackluster strengths or several flaws that prevent them from being as consistent as A or S tier.

Example: Sora has a fluid combo game and some far reaching attacks, but he has troubles defending himself from rushdown, and many of his options are risky (specials, dash attack/fsmash) or easily avoided (nair).

Samus will probably get nerfed into B tier or something. Fox might drop as the punish game improves across the board. Techincal characters like Falco, Luigi, Peach, Pacman, Sandbag, Goku, Ness, Yoshi, and BBM will likely climb when their metas are developed more.