Maybe so, but MK is still pretty easy to get around with his short range.

I find you can live quite long against MK. With good DI, 140% at least, which he needs to KO early than that to be successful in most match-up. And if you know your distance between you and him, he can't try to use Nair or Dair for a KO.

I also don't see MK's Nair winning an air-approach challenge against Ichigo's Nair, Fair, or even Bair. Ichigo can also mix-up his aerials during short-hop/full-jump to Fair-waveland to close the ground distance fast.

It's also not hard to wall Meta-Knight out when you have a projectile or a fast-long range aerial. Nair is his best bet at approach most times, but it still has a short-range that's not very hard to beat-out.

I feel like you're the only one to have the same mindset as me, pretty fun and weird if you ask me.

I think especially considering edgeguarding, most characters die before 140% with a good nair -> nair combo offstage.

Certainly, the Hail Mary nair against Ichigo will get you ftilted or naired. MK's toughest matchups are the chars that have good aerial zoning tools, but I think in many MU's like DK he can rely on his mobility and punish game to neutralize the matchup.

Ichigo has arguably the best neutral game in SSF2, and I don't really see anyone winning an aerial approach challenge or the neutral game. What I see is a very punish-oriented MK for these tough MU's and a much more aggro MK vs the rest of the cast.

You really can't punish Ichigo properly, his utilt comes out way too early. He really just eats your shield with his ground game.

Is SH NAir a reliable approach with MK? or should I use FAir more?

It's like the most reliable approach in the game.

I agree. Is there any way to stop it, or is avoiding it the only option?

I think (don't quote me on this) that as in Brawl, Meta Knight has transcendental priority on nair and his other normals, so I don''t think you can cancel it out: at least, I've never seen it be cancelled by an attack. It has a disjoint, so few characters can outrange it, and the few that can have ridiculously stringent spacing which means that you can't really outrange it. It has really low landing lag (I think 5 frames), and it has really low startup (I think 2 frames on that). With its shieldstun and the fact that it has multiple hits, I wouldn't recommend trying to shieldgrab it. I would just avoid it: if MK does it from his initial dash, it can do 20% and combo into nair again, dair, fair, uair, Shuttle Loop, Dimensional Cape, grab, dsmash, etc., and can finish you.

tl;dr Nair is godlike: just run.

Usually I play with SS's Marth and there are times where I go to approach with Nair it gets beaten out by Marth's FAir. So I find myself wondering how would I approach a good Marth?

With all of this understanding, you ask yourself: is MK overpowered?

I can't really answer that. I do know that Tails absolutely cannot penetrate a well handled MK.As long as you know what you are doing, you won't lose to Tails with him.

If I had the skill level of say, Zalosis, I'd be able to make a better determination.

MK is really good, and I think he's the best character in the game. But he is certainly not overpowered. The tiers in this game are so close (I would say that this entire game's tier list is between Fox and Captain Falcon in Melee) that I really don't see any character being OP. MK certainly has few weaknesses, but he has some: no projectile or reflector, trouble killing onstage, trouble gaining height quickly which impedes his movement around platforms, a lot of moves that can be SDI'd, dies fairly early, and doesn't have great landing options. He does have great priority, fast moves, good combos, the best recovery in the game, great edgeguarding, good kill moves offstage and meh kill moves onstage (but still pretty good for his weight), disjoints that can wall out some characters fairly effectively, the air mobility and approaches to deal with characters that can abuse projectiles, and the speed to approach characters with more range than he has.


BTW, does anyone know of any use for Mach Tornado? It seems to me to be laughably underpowered.

I always thought Mach Tornado was used as a "get off me" tool, or as recovery. But I'm sure a MK player will tell you different.

I agree with all the notes except gaining height quickly. It's just a matter of opinion.

Mach Tornado can be used to refresh your other moves and you can "stageguard" with it. (If your opponent is on the edge and getting up, you can counter it with MT.) It also works as a recovery, but I guess you already know that.