You can DI down and tech Dthrow unless you're close to the edge, then you're screwed.

Dash Attack is one of Wario's only viable moves.

Chomp needs to be fixed and it shouldn't grab during knockdown.

Wario is pretty jank in this demo.

If dash attack is one of his only viable moves, then logically some other things need buffed to compensate for a nerf right?

pls do not hold down when wario is running at you it will lead to death at 50%

So I observed Wario's playstyle a little bit more, and I think I figured out why some moves, such as his Dash Attack, are considered kind of jank.

A defense character would usually have moves that keep their defense solid and keep them safe from any danger. But Wario doesn't roll that way in this game. The majority of his moves are ironically risky and can easily be stopped or punished, but to make up for this strange combination, his moves can really dish out punishment on his foes. High Knockback, above-average tech-chase and gimp abilities, excellent combo potential, and a powerful gimmick move are the payoffs for his defensive-yet-risky playstyle.

Let's use some moves for examples.

Both Dash Attack and Shoulder Bash are risky. They don't have armor, they're short-ranged, and they are very punishable. Plus, he charges in on his opponents, which is discouraged for a super slow defense character with short range. But the payoff is their Knockback, how fast they come out, and their capability of destroying projectiles. Only reason why players are calling these moves jank is because of the lack of newb Wario players using these moves incorrectly. It's best used for edgeguarding, tech chasing, and punish. The stupid situations to use these moves are when the opponent is standing up/shielding, and when they are trying to space you out.

Nair is Wario's bread-and-butter aerial move to use for defending himself, but the move is risky. Wario can get grabbed if Nair is shielded, it has short-range, and it lasts for quite some time. The payoffs for these disadvantages are the combo potential on both the sweet and sour spots, the gimping ability with the sweet spot, the tech-chase ability with the sour spot, and the fact that its range goes from Wario's sides. Nair is an interesting move because it's acts as both a defense tool and a tech-chase tool for the fat man.

Finally we get to Chomp. I'm aware that this move needs to be tweaked for balance, so I won't talk about its combo ability or its range. Chomp is a godsend for Wario. But that godsend isn't without its cons. Chomp can be beaten, it does very little %, it's short-ranged, and characters can simply use spacing and hit Wario out of it. His payoffs are the fact that it's a grab, it's ending bite can interrupt almost every attack in the game, the ending bite's ability to gimp, the long period of time it keeps opponents trapped even when they try to break out, and the option of using it as a Wario-cide.

As a character, Wario is pretty ironic in his role for a defense playstyle. I'd say that the only reason he's labeled as a defense character is because of his slow speed, his short range, Bair, and Wario Waft. But the hidden goodies he has do more than make up for his bad qualities, and I believe that his goodies such as Dash Attack, Wario Waft, Nair, Shoulder Bash, Dtilt, and Dthrow shouldn't be touched at all (although Wario Waft needs an indicator for when it's fully charged).

This is all very true my friend, way to look for those details!

Another thing you might wanna mention is his Shoulder Bash hits only once, meaning even if you shield it, startup or near the end, it will only hit once. It works like most nairs or bairs in that regard.

I think the main problem for everyone is how weird the shield physics are, plus, who honestly stops to shield anymore hmm? Not many.
Shield grabs are risky for the fact of how laggy they can be with the shieldstun. Because in reality, if we had Sm4sh shields, we could easily grab Fox out of his Shine pressures on shield.

Here are some tech-chase options for Wario.

- SH Sourspot Nair

- Dash Attack

- Dash Grab

- Dash-canceled Dsmash

- Dash-canceled Usmash

- Dash Dtilt

- SH Chomp

- Fair

- Ftilt


Here are some setups that can lead to either Chomp/Wario-cide or Wario Waft:

- Dtilt

- Fair

- Dtilt -> Fair

- Dtilt -> Fair x2

- Dtilt -> Fair x3

- Dtilt x2 -> Fair

- Dtilt x2 -> Fair x2

- Fthrow -> Fair

- Fthrow -> Fair x2

- Utilt

- Utilt x2

- Sourspot Nair -> Dtilt

- Sourspot Nair -> Dtilt -> Fair


Here are some Fox~Only Combos:

- Dtilt x5 -> Fair -> Nair

- Dtilt x5 -> Fair x2

- Dtilt x5 -> Fair -> Wario Waft

- Dtilt x5 -> Fair -> Chomp

- Fthrow -> Dash Attack

- Fthrow -> Dash SH Chomp

- Fthrow -> Wario Waft

- Fthrow -> Shoulder Bash


Here are some setups that lead into Dair offstage:

- Fair

- Dtilt -> Fair

- Dair -> Chomp -> Dash Dtilt -> Fair

- Fthrow -> Fair


Little tip about Dair ~ It keeps Wario in the air for a tiny bit, but just long enough for opponents to whiff anti-airs and instead get a face full of a**.

People use his shoulder tackle attack a lot How do I counter?

Wow, never thought I'd see someone ask this.

The #1 method of countering Shoulder Bash is shielding it. Once it connects to your shield, Wario will keep on moving forward while performing the move until he's done, but the hitbox has disappeared. This gives you plenty of time to punish Wario.

The #2 method of countering Shoulder Bash is tech-dodging it. If you dodge Shoulder Bash, you'll have time to punish Wario. Be careful not to roll further away from Wario or else you'll get hit by a late Shoulder Bash (The later Shoulder Bash hits, the more % and knockback it will deal). Also, Wario can jump while performing the move, so trying to jump over Shoulder Bash isn't advised.

When used in the air, Shoulder Bash becomes a much safer move that is harder to punish. The downside is how hard it is to land on foes, so don't expect a Shoulder Bash in the air. Be wary, some Wario players may use it in the air for a surprise attack and catch you off guard.

Generally, smart Wario players won't use Shoulder Bash to charge foes head on. Take note, that some Wario players (Like myself) like to go for hard reads sometimes. This means that Wario players will try to use Shoulder Bash when their foes least expect it, and getting hit by a late Shoulder Bash is really painful.

Bait Shoulder Bash and defend. Once you do, punish Wario accordingly.

I've tried to Shield it, but I afterwards I can't grab the player because they jump. Any tips?

Oh, oops. I forgot to mention that they can jump after you shield.

If Wario jumps after you shield his Shoulder Bash, stop shielding and hit him. Not many people are aware of this and always go for the grab. An out-of-shield option is the best thing to use when Wario jumps after Shoulder Bash is shielded.

use up smash

God i wish this character was more solid

He needs like 20 tons of nerfs AND buffs.
Just a list of suggestions from the dude with unpopular opinions:

+ More knockback on Ftilt
+ More shield knockback on Dtilt
+ PM Fsmash Put the reflect back in Fsmash
+ Slightly increase Fsmash knockback
+ Faster startup on Usmash
+ Faster and slightly more powerful sourspot Uair
+ Less end lag on Dair
+ Higher arch on aerial Shoulder Bash
+ Faster Corkscrew
+ Longer grab range
- Increase UTilt Knockback Scaling
- Less powerful and higher angle Dthrow
- Chomp has knockback scaling
- Chomp can no longer grab a downed foe
- Chomp's hitbox made smaller, and will automatically end move after 1 second if no one is hit
* PM Dash Attack
* PM Waft
* Slightly shorten duration of Grounded Shoulder Bash, while also slightly decreasing endlag


hopefully im not being retarded here lol. But I think these changes would both eliminate his jank and also make him an overall more solid character.

The fact that no one has told me how dumb i am proves that nobody cares about wario

I agree with most of what your ideas, but there's a couple things I would like you to explain to me:


I really have no idea of what the Corkscrew is, but apart from that I want to know, how are these moves you proposed better for Wario?

I am also interested in finding out why you think the Shoulder Bash need a higher arch and a shorten duration, since grounded SB doesn't last that long imo, and finally why you want them to make the Chomp's hitbox smaller since it's already going to have some needed nerfs; I mean besides the lower hitbox to not grab the downed enemies possibly, but as it is I don't think it is still as good as kirby's.

For the 4 propesed changes above:

PM Fsmash is a more reliable kill option with more range and a less lazy animation :3 It comes out fast but has really punishable end lag, and is an option that i can see being used much more than his current fsmash, and has more practical applications than getting fatter
Corkscrew is his Up Special.
The current dash attack on top of being basically another shoulder bash is a really freakin weird kill move being both really fast and having a huge hitbox. When you hit someone grounded the angle is just brutal. PM Dash attack meanwhile is more used for setting up pressure and is honestly just more interesting visually.
PM Waft charges faster in exchange for killing later. This allows it to become a less risky recovery option and a more reliable tool in general, meanwhile feeling much less like s*** whenever you get killed by it.

As for your other questions:
A higher arc for aerial shoulder bash will both somewhat increase it's recovery utility, and can also be better utilized as a bad approach punisher. As far as the shorter duration is concerned, your hitbox is out for a while when Wario really isnt moving anymore, which i feel is the only jank part of the move (i dont really have a problem with how it becomes stronger as it lasts longer as thats really the whole point of the move)
As far as the chomp hitbox is concerned, its basically Wario's entire body which is kinda rediculous. Kirby's inhale is not better i can tell you right now, Wario's chomp is way less committed and even has a bite hitbox when you end it without catching someone, while its also more useful for setting up pressure/combos, something Inhale cant do from lack of hitstun. In the Kirby/Wario matchup, Kirby would rather have Chomp than Inhale