The downsides to Mr Incredible is that any character with a projectile screws him up so badly due to his short range and large hurtbox. Game and Watch at least has a projectile and an insane damage racking move, whereas Mr Incredible lacks the projectile.

Survivability is an aspect on the next tier list. We didn't account for momentum cancelling, so Fox and Captian Falcon and maybe Pikachu could see a rise on the tier list.

some Normal Attacks do give momentum boosts, such as Blue's.


but Mr Game and Watch is bodied so easily... when you start rushing him down under 60% he can't escape (to use Food or whatever) so he has to resort to spamming Octopus. This would work, except many characters have attacks which can extend more than, say, six ingame pixels away from him/her/it and start less than a second after the press.

Mr Incredible, however, usually has the option of swatting them away with his side or up attack. Or for his up attack just OHKO.

Let's assume we're in a match with a Mr Game and Watch vs Zero.

Zero has an infinite range projectile, and Mr Game and Watch has a small hurtbox.

Outcome: Zero will normally be able to out-gun Game and Watch, but Mr Game and Watch can always chuck some Food if he dashes.

Now, Mr Incredible vs Zero

Zero has literally no reason to lose this. Mr Incredible is a walking punchbag. Zero can just hit him with a Z-Buster or any sword attack and Mr Incredible is screwed.

As with your point about Rushdowns, most of them are understandably higher than Game and Watch. A tier list can have instances where a lower tiered character could have a good/even matchup vs a high tier one, such as Young Link vs Peach. However, Peach's matchups as a whole are better than Young Link's, placing her higher.

In this case, due to a projectile, Game and Watch can fare against characters like Kirby slightly better, however, Mr Incredible doesn't quite get that luxury because his range isn't great and he doesn't have the projectile to help him like Kirby does.

ok, fine. This is your list. Mr Game & Watch and Mr Incredible both have things they can hold over each other. I feel Incredible is better (gameplay-wise; I'm not a fan of his character or inclusion) but
that isn't anything I can prove. I didn't consider this before, but since the characters such as Zero and Luigi who play on Mr Incredible's weaknesses tend to be higher tier and they (EDIT: Mr Incredible and ) are of similar power, Mr Game and Watch should be more viable.

Actually, what did you mean in the second part? I know how countering works, but what does it have to do with anything?

When it comes to a tier list, a character can be a counter to a higher tier character, but it doesn't automatically make them better.

Young Link > Peach in their specific matchup.

However, when it comes to overall matchups:

Peach > Young Link.

Thusly, Peach would go higher on the tier list.

That's why I brought it up.

yeah, but what point are you trying to make?

this won't work with Down Moves which send you a long distance: , , , , Luigi, Crono, Blade, Blue, etc.
Also, is it me or is the download version different in actual gameplay? (beside custom controls). Blade's Side seemed to be capable of KOing at 110-130%.

All of those worked for me, idk what you are doing wrong. You just use Down Attack midair and press the opposite direction of what you werew facing. Works for every Down Attack in the game for me.

straaange...

http://csfbr.forumotion.co.uk/

Anyone who wants to help with making tier lists/matchups for the wiki, join here.

long live the bumps... Just cant play this game for longer than 5 minutes without finding something apparently.


Going back on


Actually, you were right with that one, got that mixed up. To make up for this however, I "discovered" that with these chars you can perform a wavedash. How to perform? Easy. Get one of the chars that has a Down A that works like one of the ones mentioned above and get on the stage Temple or Emerald Hill Zone (its that one, right?). It only works here because you require platforms to perform this, and the gaps on the other stages are too big (or its FD). Get on one of the platforms, place yourself at the edge or near to it and use Down Attack. If done correctly, you should slide across the gap and get carried over to the next platform while losing both your hitbox and attack animation on re-contact with the ground while sliding pretty far dpending on the char (Puff seems to be the best one, while Samus is at the lower end). Unfortunately, the lag remains, so you are forced to Jump Cancel the animation to perform a move afterwards, which also means you cant chain this.


Some other stuff with platforms that works on any stage that has them: To drop down, you usally have to hold Down for a moment. If you use your Down Attack just before falling through the floor, the attack wont be cancelled and you will essentially Platform Drop with a hitbox around you. This is especially useful for chars like Sonic, Samus, Puff, Mario etc. (basically the same ones as for the Wavedash), as you gain a mid-air dash without having to be Fox or Falcon or someone with a similar Side Attack.


Another thing that is prolly more known (at least subconsciously) is something I like to call "Falling Jump Attack". As the name implies, this only works for chars that have an additional attack in their jump (Samus, Mario Bros., Sonic+clones etc.). Drop off an edge in any way and turnaround. This will change the direction you are facing in and start your Jump Attack without actually having to jump. Flashy edgeguards come with this for free!

Minor detail that is prolly well known: You can use the Ctrl*Left/Right glitch in training mode to skip straight to the next stage without going back to the CSS. THere is a pattern in this however that will randomly srop you at the credits which I havent figured out yet, so give it a shot if you want.

Do you think you can make a video of these?

So the wavedash is a thing.
I remember there was a way in the Target test stage with Blade that you could actually do a wavedash with that, but without the platform. I was never able to successfully replicate it.

That sounds like it would be a good idea. On it! Dunno when Ill be done with this though.

List it would contain:

* Jump Cancel
* Turnaround Cancel
* Momentum Cancel
* Platform Drop
* Projectile Cancel
* Projectile Trajectory
* Wavedash
* Warping

Is there anything I missed?

Does MDI work in this game?

That would significantly improve the approach of characters with Neutral B projectiles if it did.