or just make all of her attacks a OHKO. case closed

I mean... her frame data has either not changed or improved from v0.9b, so I'm not sure where the "answer for everything" is coming from. Does nobody remember that Samus was consistently listed in the bottom half of the cast (landing at 20/30) in v0.9b? She had few true combos and few kill confirms outside of D-throw --> charge shot, plus her weight didn't favor great survivability on the top, making MUs against the high tier pretty rough. She's faster, closes stocks better, and still has an insanely safe recovery. If not for Fair and CS doing waaay too much damage for how easy they are to hit, she'd be perhaps 2 or 3 spots higher than she's been, seeing success against the midrange of the cast. But with those tools, she's a burst zoner, creating opportunities to land 3 hits that deal 50%+ damage or close the stock.

I think those 2 particular tools could use some toning down with Bair picking up some of that power, but I love her as a burst character. It makes constraining neutral with missiles and punishing poor approaches much more satisfying, and creating an awkward neutral approach game is what she's good at.

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I like beta samus tho...

I can finally beat !

Samus has always been good at racking up damage. I don't mind current Samus much. But lets go over something about her
9b self. When I say she has an answer for everything. I mean she could nearly counter most moves with knowledge of the game even fox, but...he's a little too fast to do any real counters.
In terms of beta Samus I can counter a few moves such as most of issacs special moves other than that nasty neautal special.
When i said Counter i mean.
Counter as in nullifying it(This is where Nair and Bair comes in), or out zoning it (This is where projectiles and Zair comes in).
Samus was queen of that in 9b, which allowed her to beat or bully most of the cast if you actually know how to play her.
Hence if you want to beat Samus better bring out the Fox, Marth, or Llyod. Because she's killing everyone else.
Aerials: Nearly safe and awesome
9b: Zair,Bair,Nair,Upair
Beta: Zair, Upair, Fair

She lost a move when it comes to aerials. Nair was better in that game due to it out beating others in the air. Her air game was good. Really good. You didn't mess with her while she was there. She could even use that to help her ground game.
To put it simply. Nair was our Fair.
Also Bair was our FSmash, But we did that stuff in the air.
Samus isn't a ground based character, so it's confusing we people play her like she is or talk about her as if she is. When her move sets are meant for that. This Samus isn't even built to do what she's meant to do. As she's not nearly as good in the air. You have to also think startup time. Yes Zair never stales, but it does take time to come out. Nair was one if not her fastest move.

And then her old moves functioned better with the game as well. Grab led to multiple combos. Beta doesn't do grab combos. She does quick hits of attacks (strings), which i'm assuming people haven't figured out how to counter them because she can only do true combos at low percents. As she does too much knock back to have any real follow up when you brake pass 40 or 50% if i'm not mistaken. Now since her movesets are built for even more damage she'll surpass that percentage pretty quickly. So if you want to do a combo better start at 0% or 20%.

Her weight gets her killed early even in BETA it's not like she lives longer than 9b Samus. In 9b She could DI her a** off. But the top is always a quick death for a character like her.


So pretty much it comes down to the engine functioning differently, plus the priority thing i was talking about before.


Sad to see Samus lost her styles. As one thing during 9b you could look at game play and tell which Samus was playing. Now you can't really do that. Because of Fair. Fair is king. Fair is life. Fair is love.

Hopefully that explained my reasoning for stating that lol




And why couldn't you do that before?

BECAUSE IS F***ING CHEAP AND THE ONLY THING YOU NEED TO PLAY HIM AN ANNOY THE SH1T OUT OF YOUR OPPONENT IS AN IQ OF LESS THAN 69 POIN...

You know what, just read my signature. Long story short, even really bad players somehow destroy me with , and I can't figure out how to play him for some reason. With Samus, I can finally have a fair matchup where I have a chance at winning.

I mean with that logic you could throw most of the top tier characters in there. You normally get higher up with cheaper moves.
Anyways..
It's not as hard as you think. The way you beat that Dk was zoning him. He can't kill you if he can't touch you. Samus had all the tools to do so. Zair,Nair, Missles, and CS.

Currently he's not as powerful as he used to be. So it's not that big of a deal anymore.

DK is known for strong, easy combos off most of his kit. That's what made him upper mid-tier in v0.9b, but he's combo weight. Just Nair --> charge shot at 60-80% and win.

Regarding Samus previously being able to have a counter in any situation, that's just not true. If it were, she wouldn't have been (or perhaps still be, we shall see) bottom mid-tier. Moves with fast start-up had high end lag, so baiting a punish proved disastrous for her. And her high short-hop height + slow aerial acceleration made responding with any aerial OoS a pretty bad idea, especially against short characters. And missiles... you could jab them if you wanted to, the priority was so bad. In addition to that, she had few disjoints that didn't offer great coverage, so the options she did have weren't that great. Her best tool to combat pressure was OoS Up-B, but this made empty hops a really potent tool against Samus to bait a response (still is).

Samus has, and continues to have poor tools to respond to hard pressure and combos that kill early off the top. What she has GAINED in Beta is an earlier kill ceiling, improved projectile game, and higher mobility when going ground --> air, improving what she can do when she isn't in the air. Unfortunately, this makes her reliant on Nair, Fair, charge shot, and missile cancels. So she's still stage-dependent, stales easily, continues to have predictable ways of closing a stock, and struggles against rushdowns. Fortunately, D-tilt connects better even in DI, U-smash is improved, and dash attack connects better, so her dash-dance game has some better tools for combatting approaches.

What she needs is not to return to her unfortunate v0.9b status, but to have some adjustments to her short-hop/fall speed and better aerial coverage/threat so she can handle pressure and challenge aerial approaches better. In exchange, bring Fair/charge shot down to reasonable levels, while still making Fair a little easier to connect with or launch better for combo strings or missile follow-ups for poor DI or techs. You just can't do what pros do in Melee with her here. The engine just isn't there, and even then she had a niche following and clear weaknesses. She needs to be taken in a fundamentally different direction to really succeed in the SSF2 Beta atmosphere.

All hail the mighty Samus only a god can challenge a god

Hey devs. I got a solution to this problem. Give Samus an OHKO move with 2 frames startup. It'll finally introduce the viability of banning to the meta, and with any luck, the entirety of Beta will be banned for being competitively polarizing.

Ok, now for my serious opinion on this issue.

Chill out bro.

Really though. Black Mage players didn't complain when his side-B got nerfed and made less impressive. Lloyd players didn't complain when his down-B got replaced. (Ok, both of them kinda did, but we wouldn't change the game back to 0.9b just to get what we once loved.) Ultimately, the game just changes, and you need to learn to accept that.

But at the same time, couldn't I make the same argument?

Black Mage players has more rights to complain

Nerfed Aerials and Specials and what do we get in return? F Smash buff