I've never seen Lloyd before SSF2, and I generally don't care on actual combos. I simply follow up a series of attacks, based on the situation, that I deem would benefit me the most. And it would seem that I prefer the play-style from ToS, as opposed to the more common aerial technique.

Its great how Lloyd can now use Uspec multiple times combined with Dair to recover horizontal distance

I think Lloyd is very well done, but there are a few changes I would make. First, in ToS Rising Falcon did the most damage of every singe hit move. This obviously would make Lloyd cheap in SSF2, but with the current start up lag on Rising Falcon it wouldn't be an insane idea to make it a high damage single strike (risk vs. reward). Tiger blade also doesn't combo very well. I understand F-air is supposed to be the 2nd hit of Tiger blade, but without the downward momentum it feels like it's trying too hard to be a recovery. I know a lot of ToS players who put Tiger blade as side special and use it mainly for combo starting. I understand you guys want him to have poor recovery, but in ToS Lloyd had better air movement options than just Tiger blade. Now I talk about Grave blade: I almost never use Grave blade because it only affects people on the same plane as you. I find it hard to pull off unless you anticipate and get a successful read on your opponent. In other words, it's too situational to be useful or practical.

Here's where I might sound a little crazy, but what I think Lloyd should have done to him is: cut Grave blade (or change it into Fierce demon fang, which would make some of my next statements null and void), move Sonic thrust to down B (where it still has the same options), move Tiger blade to side B (reduce it's vertical range and turn it into a more combo oriented 2 hit move with focus on combo starting and/or being viable mid-combo), use Psi tempest as his up B (more useful recovery both horizontally and vertically, plus it would be great for maneuvering around the field like Lloyd actually does), and utilize Rising Falcon as a slow, yet extremely powerful aerial move. I also believe you can use the spinning animation he does for beast as the 2 last hits in his standard 4 hit combo.

Overall as a Lloyd main, I feel that he's too much like Marth and Roy (not that that's a bad thing, I'm actually a Roy main in PM, but it just isn't Lloyd). You can gimp Psi tempest all you want to make recovery difficult, but I feel that it might just be a better recovery overall. His speed and weight are reminiscent of ToS, but for balancing purposes I'd say the changes I'd make would probably have him be a bit lighter if you want his recovery to be less useful. I'm sticking by my statements that Grave blade is too situational for competitive play, and that Tiger blade should be less about recovery and more about combo potential. I also think that an uncharged Sword rain should be very low knockback and be viable to transition into Tiger blade or Beast. Sword rain also seems to take longer to start up than Beast. It's great for anticipating, but it should still come out a little quicker.

One thing you need to be VERY careful with is trying to turn Smash canon. Smash incarnations of characters don't play the same as source material at all, even characters that come from combat-centric games. SSF2 Lloyd is something you'll have to learn, and he's extremely extremely good.

Also you play PM so you should be pretty familiar with the best application for Grave Blade: tech chasing.

Lloyd is a jerk character lol. He can just throw out attacks willy-nilly and not have to worry about trading or being punished due to the range and speed of the attacks.

https://www.change.org/p/ssf2-developer ... ir-moveset

the god has spoken

"...or think Black Mage's moveset was designed to educate the autistic..." -Oh my

I honestly felt Lloyd was absolutely fine until I played Marth ..& I didn't believe Marth would combo as well as he do, now I feel Lloyd has been a bit "royified"...

But he's still OK... and IDK about that so much, He gets out prioritized or beat by some lengthy non disjointed Hitboxes... I'd agree if you were referring solely to his downtilt and maybe Uair... But throwing out attacks can easily get you K.Oed

QFT.
Lloyd needs some real love moveset wise.

I would support this, if it wasn't written so pathetically.
I'm a Lloyd main and have been so since Flash 1. My only problem with Lloyd at the moment is his recovery. It's terrible. Whoever made this petition is totally ungrateful that Lloyd is even in the game. I haven't played ToS but if everyone who wants a ToS-esque moveset for Lloyd acts like this retard then no thanks. I like Lloyd how he is.

EDIT:

Lloyd's recovery is actually pretty good. Granted, almost every character has a decent recovery in this game, but players tend to sell Lloyd's short. Rising Falcon mitigates his fast falling speed by allowing him to traverse lengthier horizontal distances than he otherwise could, which is quite helpful. The real strength in his recovery, however, is his ability to cancel Tiger Blade into aerials. This makes his recovery mixups amazing because he doesn't have to be afraid of going high due to the fantastic disjointed hitboxes that he can throw out to cover his descent. Also helpful is the fact that he can grab the ledge really early during the Tiger Blade animation. This allows him to ignore the traditional swordsman recovery dilemma of attempting to sweetspot at the risk of being edgehogged or landing on stage at the risk of being punished during end lag. Lloyd gets the privilege of sweetspotting the ledge if his opponent isn't occupying it and landing on stage if they are. With the same input, might I add. Also worth mentioning is that a Lloyd recovering high can land lagless by linking Tiger Blade to Tempest and then Tempest to aerial Grave Blade. Awesome.

In a nutshell, Lloyd's recovery isn't bad. I don't think it's near being the worst in the game, either.


As for the petition, I found it worth a chuckle. I don't think Lloyd needs a redesign as much as he needs some polish. His moveset at base is rather solid, barring a few minor issues. Would Omega Tempest make a cool up B? Yeah, sure. But that isn't the direction that the development team chose for him, and let's face it: if the second hit is added back when he gets a resprite, it will be not only an iconic move from his game but also a neat spin on the classic swordsman recovery. I would say that that's more than acceptable. Really, all he requires is new/refined animations for some normal moves and throws. Make him use two swords for forward air to differentiate it from Tiger Blade's second hit, for example. Change downthrow so it isn't a slower version of Sword Rain. That sort of thing. Lloyd suffers from being a remnant of the time when this game had much lower standards of quality. I feel that his eventual resprite will solve a lot of issues.

Have two things to say:
1) Grounded Tiger Blades into dair works really well and can chain into other attacks since dair automatically cancels if you're at the right height (and that height is exactly the vertical distance from grounded Tiger Blades). I usually use utilt.
2) Can anyone rate how I play and point out what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong? Here are some replays in online mode. Please note that lag differs between certain replays, so my reaction isn't always the same.
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/cppp58sjh5aep/SSF2_replays

I have watched the replay.
Too bad I couldn't play my best because the game lagged too much for me...
You should try to do more combos.
Look how i play and copy.
https://www.sendspace.com/file/dhjc0i
https://www.sendspace.com/file/ffm7y4

Lloyd is my main, and if you learn his moves very well enough, he can pack quite a punch. He has some good combo potential and he can get enemies from afar with Down-Special if you time it right.

Too bad the new version decreased his awesome grab range, it was ridiculous -_-;

But everyone is right though; his recovery isn't all that great. But it isn't the worst either, there are plenty other characters who's recovery is terrible.

Discovered some hella sick tech with Lloyd, expect a video on it real soon!

Actually, Dair will always auto-cancel if you do Tiger-Blade before it; no matter the height Dair is started from. Test this by doing Tiger-Blade from under a platform to rise above it and then do Dair right on to it. Dair won't receive its landing lag animation, and you'll be able to act from it almost immediately.

You can also do Dair > Tiger-Blade > Dair > Tiger-Blade, etc. for recovery purposes.

First, I do know that, it's just Tiger Blade can also be a setup for the dair, which then combos into almost anything.

Secondly, yeah, it's what I use a lot. Not just for recovering, but also to feint and mess up with my opponents when they start an attack from below me.