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Must Stay! Must Go! Choose Your Moves! 
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/\

Yeah, but it also leaves you open and allows opponents to walk through the beams. That's why I'd recommend playing Falco instead of Fox. Also, let's get back to the topic.

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Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:57 pm
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$3Assassin wrote:
:chibirobo:
Must Go: D-Smash Useless. Literally forgot it was a thing till today.


His sweetspotted down-smash is among the strongest down-smashes when sweetspotted if i recall, The problem however is that the only way you'd land the sweetspot is either DAir -> D-Smash (most "reliable" way at medium/high percentages, but still may require reads, since they can still tech away), or dash-cancel into d-smash (which isn't very reliable if the opponent has a small hurtbox), i'd rather if his D-Smash was a little reworked rather than outright removed


PsychoSSF2 wrote:
:fox:
Must Go: Neutral Special. it only does 1% damage, and it leaves you open from above and behind!

Actually it does 2% damage by default, but due to stale move negation, it quickly lowers to 1%, but one thing it certainly has: Speed. Plus: if you're SHFFL'ing his NeutralB, you don't even have to worry about the endlag either, and because it's a very rapid fire, the damage starts to quickly stack if he's out of your range (such as while you're recovering), with a good enough aim, he can quickly bring you to his Up-Smash overkill%
Also, you're not supposed to use his NeutralB as his main form of attack... that's DownB's job lul


Anyways, my turn:
:lloyd:
Must stay:
• Tiger Blade (UpB): Tiger Blade can be used as a quick way to bait-and-punish with how Lloyd leaps upward and can quickly follow up with any of his aerials

• Rising Falcon (DownB): Rising Falcon is just a better Falcon Kick for recovery purposes, and it has decent knockback, plus when done grounded, it has an initial hitbox for when lloyd floats up, so i guess it also makes it a possible option for pushing away a pressuring opponent

• Pretty much all his aerials: His playstyle pretty much revolves around his aerials, and taking them away would also take away the fun in his playstyle, especially how you can pretty much use all of his aerials to make quite some fun combos, rather than just always sticking to one or two [*cough*]marth and falco[/*cough*]

Must go:
• Tempest (SideB): You can't quite follow it up with any attacks, and hardly should be used as a combo finisher with how laggy and risky the move is - sure, it may covers his entire hurtbox, but for some reason the final blow isn't dealt when the opponent is just below him, effectively wasting its KO potential (and even though it does end up keeping the opponent close for a potential combo, it's still painfully laggy, so it also wastes your chance to do a proper combo), it also covers little distance when used for recovery purposes (and it also leaves him helpless, seriously?)

• Down smash: It's pretty much a nerfed Grave Blade (though the final hit still has KO potential, but that's it), the move's hitbox is just honestly sad too, not being able to deal the final blow against most opponents because of the multihit pushing them too far for it.
Either his Down Smash should be completely replaced with something else, or reworked so that its hitbox is larger in the final blow and/or the knockback angle keeps them grounded (but not tumble opponents) until the last hit

• UpSmash: (Again, somewhat decent KO potential, but that's it) it has poor range both horizontal and vertical (heck, his Up-Tilt does a much better job than Up-Smash), can't even hit opponents that are standing right beside him (with no collision detection happening, that is), also it can't hit short opponents such as Kirby, Jigglypuff, and even Pikachu depending on the frame of his idle animation. In general it's just not very usable despite its knockback

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Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:57 pm
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CraftGMC wrote:
PsychoSSF2 wrote:
:fox:
Must Go: Neutral Special. it only does 1% damage, and it leaves you open from above and behind!

Actually it does 2% damage by default, but due to stale move negation, it quickly lowers to 1%, but one thing it certainly has: Speed. Plus: if you're SHFFL'ing his NeutralB, you don't even have to worry about the endlag either, and because it's a very rapid fire, the damage starts to quickly stack if he's out of your range (such as while you're recovering), with a good enough aim, he can quickly bring you to his Up-Smash overkill%
Also, you're not supposed to use his NeutralB as his main form of attack... that's DownB's job lul


Yeah... but noobs in Smash Bros. use his Neutral B as their main form of attacking anyway, because they are dumbheads.


:zelda:
Must Stay:
Side Special: Din's Fire is a good way to mess up your opponents and their recovery options.
Up Special: Farore's Wind is a great recovery tool for Zelda, just like Vanish is for Sheik, Spinning Kong is for Donkey Kong, etc.
Neutral Special: While it is useless in my opinion, Nayru's Love can block incoming attacks.

Must Go:
Down Special: If Sheik is a separate character, why does Zelda still have her old Down Special? Give her Phantom Slash already!
Zelda's Current CSS Icon And Sprites: If Smash Ultimate changed Zelda to her Link To The Past/Link Between Worlds Appearance, why did the SSF2 devs keep her Twilight Princess appearance? They really haven't been paying too much attention nowadays.

:sheik:

I don't have much to say about Sheik except that her Down Special, Transform, has to go. The devs can replace Transform with Bouncing Fish and make Burst Grenade her new side special!

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Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:29 pm
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PsychoSSF2 wrote:
Zelda's Current CSS Icon And Sprites: If Smash Ultimate changed Zelda to her Link To The Past/Link Between Worlds Appearance, why did the SSF2 devs keep her Twilight Princess appearance? They really haven't been paying too much attention nowadays.


i can only hope this is a troll post, those sprites and the accompanying moveset were done in 2013, before even smash 4 was out

thats a gross underestimation of how much time and work goes into a spritesheet for this game

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Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:33 pm
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Crow Nonya wrote:
PsychoSSF2 wrote:
Zelda's Current CSS Icon And Sprites: If Smash Ultimate changed Zelda to her Link To The Past/Link Between Worlds Appearance, why did the SSF2 devs keep her Twilight Princess appearance? They really haven't been paying too much attention nowadays.


i can only hope this is a troll post, those sprites and the accompanying moveset were done in 2013, before even smash 4 was out

thats a gross underestimation of how much time and work goes into a spritesheet for this game


This was not a troll post.

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Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:11 pm
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assuming there's a shred of truth to that, if it were feasible for them to do a whole resprite of zelda within months of smash ultimate's release, what would be stopping them from pumping out a polished character a week? these things take time, whole months to get the sprites done, the coding done, the hitboxes arranged, any bugtesting handled, etc.

and when you consider zelda's current sprites are totally functional, high quality, and fit the game's aesthetic perfectly, respriting her in the smash ultimate style would frankly be wasteful if that effort could go elsewhere, for characters in actual need of some reworking.

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Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:21 pm
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in other words a zelda resprite is not necessary at the moment

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Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:35 pm
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:chibirobo:
Must stay: Blaster, Nair, Fair, Bair, DTilt, FSmash, Uair. These are all cornerstones of Chibis neutral game and combo game, and removing one or more of these (or just making one/multiple moves from that list notably worse) could easily mess up the entire character.

Must go: Pick Up because its a buggy mess. But seeing as it is an integral part of Chibi as a character, my next best choice would be FTilt. Not really bad, just outclassed by DTilt in just about every way.

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Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:07 am
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:sora: His Side B is too predictable.

All other moves can stay.

Other than that, his sprites need to be reworked alongside with Lloyd :lloyd: .


Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:07 am
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Why would you remove the only real mixup to Soras recovery as well as the thing that actually lets him go anywhere with it :chibirobo:

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Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:15 am
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:bowser:
Must Stay: Basically all of his moveset, he's already perfect
Must go: His Side Smash, like in Melee in Brawl, its slowness leaves you very susceptible to hits, in addition to its difficulty to hit, whatever, replace it with its Sm4sh/Ultimate side special, a faster and easier hit to hit with the same power as its predecessor

:sandbag:
Must Stay: Everything
Must Go: His Up Special, i see bombing yourself as a... Not very good recovery

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Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:03 am
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:pichu:
Must stay: Neutral-B. It's the most unique move he has and tha angle is quite useful sometimes.
Must go: The uncharged up-b. It's basically the same as Pikachu's but it's slower, stronger and it damages you. The triple zip Agiliry from Brawl Minus would have been better.

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Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:34 am
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:naruto:
Must stay: All throws. Very useful and long range.
Must go: D-air. Quite useless, and making him vulnerable off the stages, i didn't found a good way for use this move, so yeah.

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Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:51 pm
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:sandbag:
Must Stay: Everything else.
Must Go: Side taunt. Outclassed by crouch in every way.

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Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:28 pm
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Bandana Dee
Must Stay: Nair. Absolutely necessary, because without it he would easily be one of the worst in the game.
Must Go: Up-B needs a good bit more distance upwards and replace Down-B with the elemental properties from Star Allies.

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Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:04 am
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