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Smash Flash Back Room Official Beta Tier List (1.0.3.2) 
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Hi everyone, it's your favourite friendly neighbourhood BR member here, it's Strife!

So, we have spent an absolute crap-ton of time on this list, and we'd like to share it with you now. First, let's shout out the contributors.

Contributors: show
Current BR Members
  • Strife ( :megaman: , :sheik: , :bandanadee: )
  • FutureMac ( :ichigo: , :wario: )
  • Jammy ( :captainfalcon: , :falco: )
  • Bowler ( :yoshi: , :falco: )
  • Miracle--7 ( :pit: , :bowser: )
  • TheCodeSamurai ( :falco: , :donkeykong: , :peach: )
  • Dark Ermac ( :samus: )
  • Corvid ( :blackmage: , :samus: , :link: )
  • TLord ( :kirby: , :luffy: )
  • Firewater ( :donkeykong: , :bowser: )
  • Lunar (KingPawn) ( :marth: )
  • TSON ( :luffy: , :sandbag: , :zelda: )
  • Oreo ( :marth: )
  • MKZaiR ( :metaknight: , :marth: , :mario: )
  • Kyoz ( :yoshi: , :zerosuitsamus: - formerly :pacman: )
  • FearZero ( :ness: )
  • JayVoltage ( :pikachu: , :yoshi: , :sheik: )
  • Noxxious ( :blackmage: , :wario: )
  • -CJ- ( :bowser: , :donkeykong: , :kirby: )
  • BeeSea ( :sheik: , :gameandwatch: , :falco: )
  • Fanfreak247 ( :captainfalcon: , :ichigo: )
  • Sorabotics ( :luffy: )
  • xSOLxShady ( :pikachu: )
  • 135 ( :pikachu: )
  • RiVer ( :isaac: , :samus: , :wario: )
  • Drarky ( :blackmage: , :chibirobo: )
  • Fedora the Explorer ( :bomberman: , :chibirobo: , :kirby: )

Former BR members who contributed significantly:
  • Cookies ( :chibirobo: , :tails: )
  • Chaos0 ( :tails: , :lloyd: , :luigi: )
  • Suli Hyuga ( :isaac: , :falco: )
  • Gax ( :donkeykong: , :fox: )


Now, for the actual list:

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Text and emoji version of the list: show
S: Tails (+4)
A+: Lloyd (+5) Marth (+9) Samus (+4) Ichigo (+5)
A: DK (+9) Link (+7)
A-: Falco (-2) Fox (-7) Meta Knight (-7) Captain Falcon (+6)
B+: Goku (-11) Mario (+2) Chibi-Robo (+20) Sheik (-4)
B-: Mega Man (-12) Ness (+8) Pikachu (+3) Yoshi (+20) Peach (+10) Bomberman (+15) Zelda (-1)
C+: Isaac (-14) Pacman (+4) Sora (+1)
C: Bandana Dee (+7) Kirby (+9) Game and Watch (-4) Bowser (-11) Sandbag (+5) Jigglypuff (-8)
C-: Black Mage (-1) Sonic (-1) Zero Suit Samus (-6) Pit (-22) Wario (-14) Luffy (-8)
D: Luigi (-19) Naruto (-2)


S: :tails: (+4)
A+: :lloyd: (+5) :marth: (+9) :samus: (+4) :ichigo: (+5)
A: :donkeykong: (+9) :link: (+7)
A-: :falco: (-2) :fox: (-7) :metaknight: (-7) :captainfalcon: (+6)
B+: :goku: (-11) :mario: (+2) :chibirobo: (+20) :sheik: (-4)
B-: :megaman: (-12) :ness: (+8) :pikachu: (+3) :yoshi: (+20) :peach: (+10) :bomberman: (+15) :zelda: (-1)
C+: :isaac: (-14) :pacman: (+4) :sora: (+1)
C: :bandanadee: (+7) :kirby: (+9) :gameandwatch: (-4) :bowser: (-11) :sandbag: (+5) :jigglypuff: (-8)
C-: :blackmage: (-1) :sonic: (-1) :zerosuitsamus: (-6) :pit: (-22) :wario: (-14) :luffy: (-8)
D: :luigi: (-19) :naruto: (-2)


For clarification:
  • S to A- is considered top tier.
  • B+ and B- is considered high tier.
  • C+ and C is considered mid tier.
  • C- and D is considered low tier, however D can be considered bottom tier.

So, I suppose I should try to explain some of the key differences from the 1.0.2 list to the 1.0.3 list:

Isaac :isaac: - 9th (A) --> 23rd (C+):
Isaac probably got hit the hardest out of all the original top tier characters from the projectile nerfs as many of his key spacing tools, namely his tilts are now much easier to deal with. This, alongside RiVer mostly retiring after 1.0.3 dropped, led to Isaac's overall representation taking a turn for the worse and the character's meta relevance began to progressively weaken as his original flaws became much more apparent.

Pit :pit: - 13th (A-) --> 35th (C-):
Easily suffering the largest drop from 1.0.2, the universal changes to multihits as well as the nerf to projectiles exacerbated Pit's more serious flaws and nerfed his punish game drastically, Despite continued representation from Miracle--7, Pit does not have the tools to succeed in the current metagame and as such, earns his spot amongst the low tiers as the metagame has shifted towards punish games.

Luigi :luigi: - 19th (B+) --> 38th (D):
Falling 19 places, Luigi's nerfed aerials, poor range, worse fireball and reliance on dash cancelling has led to the character being completely outclassed in every single way by everyone above him. Luigi's metagame is all over the place and currently, his overall mediocre traits do not help him in this meta, especially as matchups he used to win have turned against him and characters he did poorly against have become more prominent.

Chibi-Robo :chibirobo: - 34th (C-) --> 14th (B+):
Receiving one of the biggest buffs of the patch, Chibi-Robo's punish game went from horrendous to amazing. On top of the improvements to his neutral, this character having two high level reps in the form of Cookies and Drarky really help this character excel, and his originally mediocre toolkit has improved ridiculously.

Yoshi :yoshi: - 39th (STOP READING HERE) --> 19th (B-):
Well done balancers, this character is good. Ask a Yoshi main and they'll tell you the character is top 10. His better range, combo tools, and better double jump armour have seriously improved the character to an absolute tank with a great damage output who suffers against swordies. Good job guys.

Peach :peach: [30th (C+) --> 20th (B-)] and Bomberman [36th (C-) --> 21st (B-):
A change to bombs and a realization of the characters amazing toolkit was due after the improvements to both on patch 1.0.3. Bomberman's better metagame presence and neutral and Peach's monstrous punish game thanks to her down smash, down throw and edgeguarding have put these characters back on the radar. Both of these characters are definite high tier threats and they are now serious contenders again.

PAC-MAN :pacman: - 27th (B-) --> 23rd (C+):
That tier system is weird lol.
Whilst the key glitch was a good discovery, PAC-MAN's loss of both Kyoz and Z-Galaga will inevitably hurt the character, and the key glitch does not entirely solve these flaws. It remains to be seen how Pac-Man's tier placing will be affected in the future of this metagame.

----

Well, I suppose that's it, really. Comment your thoughts down below, and I'll see you round!

- Strife

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Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:02 am
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Sonic was never good

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Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:15 am
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rip naruto

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Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:28 am
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I love the Wario placement, he definantly deserves to be bottom 5 in his current state.

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Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:39 am
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well s***
my main is bottom 2

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Last edited by 30XX on Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:29 am
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I wish the tiers weren't so radically broken up but nothing I disagree with super strongly here

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Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:31 am
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tson wrote:
I wish the tiers weren't so radically broken up but nothing I disagree with super strongly here

Shut up you jim.
The gap is fair enough honestly, there's a decent power gap, but there'd be no harm in just an A+ and A- tier I suppose

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Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:56 am
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Alright, Complaining Time:

Pac-Man Being Top 25: Strife probably disagrees with this placement too. Since despite all the hype going up from that key glitch from what is essentially a bottom 3/5 character now that Kyoz dropped Pac-Man, it really is NOT that good at all. The glitch itself requires refreshing, a ton of setup, and the opponents can get interfered easily. Oh yea and theres some weird fruit collisions with trampolines where fruits magically disappear from trampolines for no reason. Pac-Man really is a character that only relies on jank and a decent edge guarding game + fruits to do anything, but he is fundamentally flawed as a character. He is relatively easy to counterplay once you know the matchup and he has a matchup spread that of a lower low tier or bottom tier character, especially with swordfighters. Pac-Man also has a mediocre neutral at best when it comes to opponents knowing how to properly deal with fruits/hydrants and Pac-Man gets little to no reward outside of stage control and more setup time when he wins in neutral because of his below average combo game and lack of proper damage output outside of hydrant. Pac-Man also can be easily rushed down by anyone faster than him which is an easy way to prevent fruit setups, oh yea and did I mention how Pac-Man cannot reliably kill? Most Pac-Man mains would have to depend on hydrants for kills which is super risky and can even get Pac-Man killed himself which renders some inconsistencies as a character and Back-Throw is unreliable and it kills at like 150% - 160% maybe even 170% off the ledge if the opponent is a heavy. Not to mention that Pac-Man has a pretty bad grab game with no reward and it has no grabbox on the tip and it's active frames (While better than smash 4) still don't fully cover the visuals and it has a lot of endlag making it punishable. Definently bottom 10 at best if you ask me.

Zero Suit Samus in LOW tier: While yea, ZSS isn't great. However, I do believe that she should be just below Jiggs in C tier. Zero Suit Samus still has decent mobility with good disjoints on some of her moves making her cover space super well. ZSS also has a decent neutral because of N-Air alone and a great overall edge guarding game and fantastic combo game despite her terrible grab. She is more high risk high reward this version because of her grab and she can still do well against most of the characters above her compared to others, so she is probably in the bottom of mid tier rather than low tier.

Bandana Dee being in C Tier: Bandana Dee should probably be in the bottom of B- tier and that Bdee Kirby gap is too small. Bdee has of course disjoints which is important in a meta filled with swordfighters. Bdee still has a great edge guarding game, a decent projectile with neutral-b, great spacing tools, a busted back-air, and a very small hurtbox making him hard to combo and hit. Oh yea, did I mention how Bdee can constantly weave in and out of attacks as a decent way to play defensively to not get hit because of his decent air acceleration? I feel like B- suits him better.

Pit being in Bottom 5: Pit is probably bottom 10 at this moment. This is mostly because while Pit is flawed, he still is a swordfighter which makes him fundamentally better than most low tiers, and he has a couple of decent niche matchups like the Spacies because of his fantastic edge guarding game and the fact that he can outrange them and easily deal with laser pressure, and Pit also can deal with characters like Tails and most other top tier swordfighters better than most low tiers or even mid tiers. So he should probably swap with Sandbag because Sandbag's mu spread is poopy along with Sandbag being inconsistent as a character as a whole.

Ness Being in High Tier: Ness should be bumped down a few spots. Not only does his psuedo-infinite not work on some of the characters including top tiers like TAILS along with counterpicks existing, but his neutral is abysmal making it hard for him to get the grab in the first place (Also that psuedo-infinite might get banned). Ness has a lot of landing issues, an easily gimpable recovery meaning that winning neutral over ness could mean death to Ness, and Ness's ranged moves have pretty bad frame data like F-Air making most of his useful moves have pretty poor range. Ness also isn't particularly fast and he has bad matchups against pretty much most high/top tiers that don't get affected by the psuedo-infinite. Place Him somewhere in C+ or C tier.

Isaac in C+ Tier: Isaac should probably be in C tier instead of C+. Isaac has the worst frame data in the game by far making all of his moves super punishable and it makes Isaac lose to pretty much anyone faster. Isaac also has most of his dumb disjoints (That are considered "Projectiles" like D-Tilt) clankable making his mus against some of the lower tiered chars less bad for them. Isaac also has an exploitable recovery rendering him inconsistent and he relies on side-b a lot which is super telegraphed. Later on in competitive play he will obviously be easier to deal with, oh yea and he has nonexistent results now. C Tier is pretty reasonable for him now.

A little nitpick, but I feel like Ichigo, Marth, and Lloyd should all be tied on the tier list. Ichigo has superior speed and range, Marth has superior combos and juggles, and Lloyd has a superior projectile and the most consistent kill confirms and probably the best results from the 3 but Marth comes close with Oreocackester and KingPawn doing well with the character.

Outside of these Placements, the other placements are relatively reasonable and I'm fine with this tier list compared to the first one. The only placement I extremely disagree with is Pac-Man for obvious reasons.

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Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:59 pm
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ZSS can't KO though; it's not hard to live into the 150%'s against her as a mid-weight, if you know her KO patterns.


Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:59 pm
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135 wrote:
ZSS can't KO though; it's not hard to live into the 150%'s against her as a mid-weight, if you know her KO patterns.


She has B-Air however, and that move is decent for killing. B-Air is easy to pressure with and iirc you can up-throw to B-air. She also has F-Smash which is reliable and long and you can combo down-smash into it. ZSS also has up-air along with having a decent juggle game to at least get the Up-Air properly.

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Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:18 pm
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Been out of the loop for a while, what happened to :goku: ? Last I checked, everyone thought he was an easy Top 3.

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give sonic a buff you clods


Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:08 pm
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SonicDriver wrote:
Been out of the loop for a while, what happened to :goku: ? Last I checked, everyone thought he was an easy Top 3.

His backthrow chaingrab was removed, and he has gotten a few nerfs. Meanwhile, other characters have surpassed him due to buffs.

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Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:11 pm
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h o l l i d o oXX wrote:
SonicDriver wrote:
Been out of the loop for a while, what happened to :goku: ? Last I checked, everyone thought he was an easy Top 3.

His backthrow chaingrab was removed, and he has gotten a few nerfs. Meanwhile, other characters have surpassed him due to buffs.



Thanks, man :mrgreen:

Gotta catch myself up on this meta.

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give sonic a buff you clods


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playridise wrote:
135 wrote:
ZSS can't KO though; it's not hard to live into the 150%'s against her as a mid-weight, if you know her KO patterns.


She has B-Air however, and that move is decent for killing. B-Air is easy to pressure with and iirc you can up-throw to B-air. She also has F-Smash which is reliable and long and you can combo down-smash into it. ZSS also has up-air along with having a decent juggle game to at least get the Up-Air properly.

ZSS is hard and pretty much no one has put enough time into her to unlock any sort of potential. She has tools but they are hard to set up. And Bair is difficult to hit against smaller characters to the point where it's just sad. Any character with their double jump left and/or a decent below-hitting move can avoid her Uair juggle easily, forcing her to return to the ground and go up again, but by that time the opponent is already prepared to evade, attack, or airdodge. ZSS has a hard and definitely should not be above Jigglypuff.

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Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:38 pm
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playridise wrote:
Isaac has the worst frame data in the game by far


Chibi wants to have a word with you I think :chibirobo: Its a**.

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Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:47 pm
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