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Lloyd 
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warriorman222 (In Ichigo topic) wrote:
Lloyd's recovery is terrible. It doens't need another nerf. he just needs a worse Sid-B, koing DK at 80% is unacceptable
Tiger-Blade by itself is a so-so recovery move, but Lloyd's recovery as a whole is nearly un-punishable.

Right now, being about to do Rising Falcon into Tiger-Blade for an repeated process makes Up-special > Down-air > Up-special covers good range off-stage. To add to that, it lets Lloyd go into safer options. It's very ambiguous on when there's an opening to punish or react to what Lloyd's next move-cancel will be. Most characters lack the tools to punish it at all.

Lloyd is only in trouble when hit below the stage, but honestly, his moveset is ergonomically designed to treat that problem for him. Way too difficult to even put him in that position; and even when you do, it's a hell to punish as well.

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Last edited by Z A L O on Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:20 pm
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Lloyd is SS tier. A toddler can play him.

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Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:35 pm
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sparty88 wrote:
Lloyd is SS tier. A toddler can play him.

true, he's so easy to use. But his recovery isn't that great, even in range of the ledge, some shiek decide to teleport on place and send me flying away helpless because of the windbox. Or DK happens and hits me off the satge at 20% so i can't recover. we need to nerf his moves but buff his upB.

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Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:43 pm
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warriorman222 wrote:
sparty88 wrote:
Lloyd is SS tier. A toddler can play him.

true, he's so easy to use. But his recovery isn't that great, even in range of the ledge, some shiek decide to teleport on place and send me flying away helpless because of the windbox. Or DK happens and hits me off the satge at 20% so i can't recover. we need to nerf his moves but buff his upB.

His recovery is amazing. Read Zalosis' post.

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Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:47 pm
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sparty88 wrote:
warriorman222 wrote:
sparty88 wrote:
Lloyd is SS tier. A toddler can play him.

true, he's so easy to use. But his recovery isn't that great, even in range of the ledge, some shiek decide to teleport on place and send me flying away helpless because of the windbox. Or DK happens and hits me off the satge at 20% so i can't recover. we need to nerf his moves but buff his upB.

His recovery is amazing. Read Zalosis' post.

Agreed.

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Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:45 am
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sparty88 wrote:
Lloyd is SS tier. A toddler can play him.
This. Especially that last part. I can't even bring myself to use him anymore because it literally makes any match sad to play.

Funny though, I still think Ichigo could go even with him. Side-B successfully escapes Lloyd's offensive pressure in most situations, with the right timing; even when it whiffs. It forces Lloyd to play way more patiently.

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Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:09 am
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Zalozis wrote:
sparty88 wrote:
Lloyd is SS tier. A toddler can play him.
This. Especially that last part. I can't even bring myself to use him anymore because it literally makes any match sad to play.

Funny though, I still think Ichigo could go even with him. Side-B successfully escapes Lloyd's offensive pressure in most situations, with the right timing; even when it whiffs. It forces Lloyd to play way more patiently.

Depends on the map. Anything with platforms, Lloyd takes it. Even a wide enough flat map like FD, I think Lloyd might take it. 3Ds, I might give the nod to Ichi.

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Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:59 am
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sparty88 wrote:
Lloyd is SS tier. A toddler can play him.

I took second in smash island 5 going all Lloyd the day after I started playing him for a laugh, I literally did the same strings, mixups, combos and chaingrabs over and over without thinking until I got to winners finals, it just felt so cheap, so I dropped him shortly after. I don't agree with saying that he's SS tier, but yeah, a child could play him.

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Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:22 am
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I think he's SS tier.

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Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:55 am
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Lloyd changes pls.
2 braindead.

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Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:55 pm
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In v.0.9a it was like,

"Everyone got Nerfed!! This game has no Combo!"

In v.0.9b, which came with quite a bit of Nerfs, it's like,

"DK is broken help lol"
"Link is broken help lol"
"Zamus is broken help lol"
"MetaKnight is the strongest character help lol"
"Tails is broken help lol"
"BM is broken help lol"
"Zelda is S-Tier."
"Lloyd is SS-Tier help lol"
"Ichigo is broken help lol"

I don't think you can have a third of the cast be "broken" lol
Unless IDK, it's like Brawl- or something where every character is broken, but then no character is broken. Not saying SSF2 is a balanced one-Tier game, but I think you guys tend to exaggerate quite a bit lol

Like, I can imagine when we get rid of everything people complain of about Lloyd, there'll be a bunch of people saying Lloyd sucks now and got Nerfed too much (and maybe also how SSF2 has no fun noob-friendly character now). Until someone online finds out that he can still Combo very well off his N-Air and Up-B, and we get a bunch of stuff like "Lloyd N-Air Combo too free help lol" :/

We'll Nerf a lot of things you guys have trouble with; it's not like we somehow want the game to be broken. But we'll not nerf everything. As in, for exmple, we won't Nerf Marth's F-Smash just because someone claims they can use it all day without having to think much because it has 1337 range. And we won't Nerf Captain Falcon's F-Air because it can Ko really well and you can Combo into it.

I'm not saying don't criticize balance. Do that, but taking into account that that meta-game is still a baby, and has room to grow. Like, don't call the Fox-Marth Match-Up 100 - 0 because your Fox managed to beat a couple of Marths online by playing run-away and using Neutral-B to rack up 500% damage. And don't say it's 0 - 100 because your Marth's U-Throw can Combo so well you "feel bad for using it". Take a deep breath; don't overreact.

(Not aiming this at any particular person or post. Just addressing a particular trend that seems to be around these days.)


Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:38 pm
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^
basically

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Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:23 pm
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Zalozis wrote:
warriorman222 (In Ichigo topic) wrote:
Lloyd's recovery is terrible. It doens't need another nerf. he just needs a worse Sid-B, koing DK at 80% is unacceptable
Tiger-Blade by itself is a so-so recovery move, but Lloyd's recovery as a whole is nearly un-punishable.

Right now, being about to do Rising Falcon into Tiger-Blade for an repeated process makes Up-special > Down-air > Up-special covers good range off-stage. To add to that, it lets Lloyd go into safer options. It's very ambiguous on when there's an opening to punish or react to what Lloyd's next move-cancel will be. Most characters lack the tools to punish it at all.

Lloyd is only in trouble when hit below the stage, but honestly, his moveset is ergonomically designed to treat that problem for him. Way too difficult to even put him in that position; and even when you do, it's a hell to punish as well.

Considering i'm 95% of the time hit below the stage with any character(no joke), i suck at recovering with Lloyd. get me under the stage and you get a free stock. Maybe i just suck.

Does anyone have any pointers? yes i am serious a baby could do better with Lloyd, and i want ot main him cause i like him.

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Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:53 pm
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warriorman222 wrote:
Considering i'm 95% of the time hit below the stage with any character(no joke), i suck at recovering with Lloyd. get me under the stage and you get a free stock. Maybe i just suck.

Does anyone have any pointers? yes i am serious a baby could do better with Lloyd, and i want ot main him cause i like him.

Button mash.

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Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:47 pm
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Meyguhmein wrote:
warriorman222 wrote:
Considering i'm 95% of the time hit below the stage with any character(no joke), i suck at recovering with Lloyd. get me under the stage and you get a free stock. Maybe i just suck.

Does anyone have any pointers? yes i am serious a baby could do better with Lloyd, and i want to main him cause i like him.

Button mash.

Well, i now know never to expect or want something serious. maybe i'll go look for a tips thread.

inb4 i'm serious

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Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:57 pm
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