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LilMac's Winter Tier List 2016 
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Before I begin, a few things.
I'm doing this every year, in the Winter and in the Summer.
If you don't like this list, feel free to correct me, but don't be a butthead about it.
I'm doing this based off of what I've seen, not actual statistics.
Well, Enjoy reading! It's gonna be a long read.

S:

MetaKnight: :metaknight: Though there are not many Meta mains in the community that I have seen or know of, The very few I've seen were very good, or at least above average. Into MK, though, MK has many traits that help him. What puts him at the top of my list is the fact that all his special moves are recovery options. Some being safer than others, but it can really help with the 6 jumps he already has. Basically, just like Brawl Mk, but easier to deal with. His only flaws are not being able to kill off bat, and that after using a special move in the air, he goes in to freefall. But still he is a force to be reckoned with.


A:

Zero Suit Samus: :zerosuitsamus: Zero Suit players are the most fun to play in my opinion, they make a match fun and makes you wonder what they might do next. Kyoz is the ZSS master in SSF2, and he kicks a** with her. Going into her base, she is a semi-fast type character, with some moves coming out faster than others. The reason why she is second on this list, is due to her agility moving around the stage, it can be a determining factor when playing a game. Especially when its close.

Lloyd: :lloyd: Lloyd is a mini tank with many options of approaching and killing. This dude even has a zoning tool. I don't know many Lloyd players, but I am aware that there a few of them out there, either using him wrong, or destroying tourneys with him. In his base, Lloyd is almost S tier. Yes. He is. The reason why he is third on this list, is mainly due to his recovery, and lag on his best moves (though this is for the best, or he would be broken) Down-b is great for campers, side-b is best for rushers, and then, the dreaded up-b to n-air combo. It seems ok at first, but then you can do nothing to stop it. If anything related to those three moves were to become buffed in any way, he would be seriously broken.

Fox: :fox: Fox is a very fast character with major hits and insane combo string abilities. In the SSF2 community, there are too many fox mains to count, and most of them know how to properly land shines. In Fox's base, Speed is his friend. But at times can be his worst enemy. Inexperienced Foxes can find themselves getting 4 stocked easy due to his fast falling speed. Fox is for quick-minded, quick reacting people. Fox is fourth on my list for that very reason.

Captain Falcon: :captainfalcon: Falcon is S tier in badassery and style. I know of only Jammy, but there are most likely a LOT more Falcon mains. Falcon is one of the fastest in the game, with one of the safest (though not the best) recoveries in the game, especially when recovering low. A major perk for falcon, is his extra jump recovery. After a falcon kick in the air, you receive your extra jump back, giving you another chance to get back to the stage. His running grab range is insane as well. Falcon's problem, is his lack of accuracy. You can be one of the most on point players in the game. You will miss at least one core attack with Falcon.. I'll put money on it.

Marth: :marth: If it were really up to me, I'd cut Marth from this game. I can't stand him. I swear I've never hated a single thing more in my life more than SSF2 Marth. I'd ramble, but this is a tier list, so I have to commend his perks. Marth is a very good range character, and is one of the most balanced at the moment. His f-smash, though spammy, can kill when tipped, which is a very good thing considering people who like to camp. His base of attacks, is his n-special. It can break shield when charged, and even if you don't get the shield break, you can still get insane knockback on your opponent. Marth's No.1 flaw is his side-b, and how vulnerable it leaves him. When used completely, he can be left in the dust if shielded or avoided, giving your opponent easy kill opportunities. But most Marths refrain from this. So it isn't really a problem. Forget I said anything.

Donkey Kong: :donkeykong: Donkey Kong is a big a** gorilla. That's it really. I know Praeto plays Dong, as well as HardKnockDays/Infamous. I refer to Donkey as the bullsht magnet. DK has super armor on his neutral-b and his up-b, which can be a problem for pursuers. DK's side-b is underused due to its one-second pause, but can be used for a spike, and when on the ground, it can bury your opponent. The higher the percentage, the longer you're in the dirt. Dk's flaw is his lack of a vertical recovery. I don't know any Dk mains that can recover above at least half the stage.

Goku: :goku: Goku is a semi speedy character with a semi recovery and a semi moveset. In all honesty, he should be in the B tier, but the reason he is up so high is his Kaio-Ken. Kaio-Ken improves performance and damage at the cost of damage.. A settling factor, It has no set time, it can last as long as you are attacking, or can cut off. I'm not really sure, you gonna have to look to a Goku main for the answer to that question. Goku's flaw, is his recovery. Though he has his floating ability, the vertical recovery doesn't reach far. It could render him useless when below the stage.

Naruto: :naruto: Now before you go..."LilMac you dipsht! why is Naruto so low?!", Naruto is good, but he just doesn't seem to fit so high in my opinion. Every attack he has in the air is angled except his up b. It's not that hard to aim, but its the convenience of the matter. Naruto is good, it's just in my book, there are people better than him. I don't have a lot to say about him either. I think Miracle-7 plays a good naruto. (Miracle if you see this, feel free to disconfirm if this is not true.)

Black Mage: :blackmage: Black Mage is my favorite character, that I dont play. His moveset it the most creative, and he pack a punch. What more could you ask for? But he comes with flaws. One of them being the super predictable recovery. It's a dead giveaway. Anyone can easily mooch off a kill, just because they can physically see where you will end up being. Another flaw is is lack of ups. I'm probably over exaggerating, but two of his jumps can equal one of the average character. But I love the fact that he is the best ledgeguarder, only having to walk up to the lag to ledgeguard for a kill. Its beautiful.

B:

Zelda/Sheik :zelda: :sheik: To me, Zelda and Sheik are as one. JK
Zelda: :zelda:
Zelda is a very strong, very responsive hard hitter. Her aerials are deadly, and has a great, hard to predict recovery. Can recover effectively with her side-b and neutral-b if used with momentum. Her main flaw is that she can't handle pressure. Her stature and speed is not fit to be pressured (imo). Her sweetspotted d-air and f-airs are insanely easy to hit, as well as her u-air. I think doqk, plays a good Zelda, but I cant be sure. Due to her being insanely bad when pressured, but with easy-to-land hard hittting kill moves, she is top B on my list.

Sheik: :sheik:
Sheik is the slightly weaker, yet more agile verision of Zelda.(If that's how Sheik and Zelda work. Sheik is Zelda? Just transformed?) She can handle pressure well, as well as give some back when the time calls for it. Her f-air, though hard to land, has very high knockback. Her b-air (to me) is more of a gimp tool, that is sometimes used for zoning. Her needles can keep an opponent at bay, or can cancel out any charging smash attack. Her side-b, I don't understand. It's a waste of a side-b imo. But thats not why she is B on my list. She is B on my list for her lack of hit power. Everything she hits doesn't go far, and the only thing, that does have high knockback, is hard to land. I'd say her down smash is good enough but it doesn't kill. (at high percents properly) With optimal DI anyone can live up to 200 percent against Sheik.

Tails: :tails: I'm gonna catch hell for this, but I'm taking the time to explain why Tails is this low. This is all my opinion. Plz, feel free to protest, but don't kill me. Tails is very fast, with a lot going for him. But to me, he seems to be like someone who can't hit anything. It may be just me, but Tails has alot of s*** on him. I can;t explain it for some reason. I don't know why. He just fits here. I'm sorry. I don;t have an explaination for Tails.

Pikachu: :pikachu: Pikachu is another high tier I feel is a little too high. I mean, I haven't seen many Pikachus, and when I do come across one, it sucks. I've only ever played a few good Pikachus, and they was on anthers. I mean his aerials are ok, and he has a great down-b, but other than that and sheer speed, I don't see him with anything really. Imean, if you can explain his relevance, or beat me with him I could reconsider, but right now, nope.

Bomberman: :bomberman: Bomberman is very good character. I've come across many Bombermans, the best being WRXJoey, and a guy on anthers named Bombermanfan461 or 681 I don't know. Bomberman bombs are the best things for BBM users, but is dangerous for their opponent. The bombs strike fear into them, not knowing when the player decides to blow them up. It cuts off a lot of stage room, due to the opponent trying to avoid those bombs. I also find BBM's up-b a little annoying as well, but nothing is too strong.

Yoshi: :yoshi: Yoshi is the most underplayed with the most potential. I don't think anyone has claimed Yoshi yet. I know some people use him, but they aren't serious. Yoshi is a very, very hard hitter with a lot of force. With momentum, Yoshi can kill at low percents (with little to no DI). Yoshi's mains flaw is his lack of recovery. His second jump is his recovery. You might be able to survive with the tiny boost the up-b gives you when you throw an egg, but other than that, Yoshi is screwed. I heard it has super armor on the startup frames, which is fine considering that he has no recovery after that.

Link: :link: Link is a cool character to use. His survivability is the best in the game, considering his weight and recovery. Link's boomerang is best for keeping opponents at bay, and when it's returning, it can catch your opponent with you, giving you a grab setup or another attack. What I feel is bad for Link is his speed on the ground, He pretty much has no range without his projectiles. I feel like I should say more, but his bombs don't like me. H ehas good grab range. If only it were faster.

Mario: :mario: Mario is the most generic, easy to use/master character. He has many basic moves that have basic everything. He is just as balanced as Marth and is very easy to use. He has easy options of recovery and can be both offensive and defensive when the time calls for it. Mario can be overwhelmed at times. Any character faster than him has the potential to KO him with ease, even if the opponent doesn't know what he is doing. Mario doesn't hit as hard as he does in the other games, but this is an individual game.

Ichigo: :ichigo: I love and hate this guy. We've been through thick and thin. Moments where I loved him, and moments where I've hated him. Ichigo is similar to Link when it comes to speed. He is fast in the air, yet slow on the ground. I think the main that helps him is his flash step. It seems to piss off many of the other players because they can't seriously hit me. Now his main flaw, and it still drives me crazy, is the lag on all his smash attacks. I can have some sexy combo going, and I just need to finish it with a smash attack, but since his takes a second, I can't do s***. Another thing, Ichigo can't kill without the smash attacks. A player can live to 200% against him just because he can't kill without them. I mean he can have some sexy reads with them, but it's still hard to predict. His dash attack is similar to his side-b, and is a very spammy move to use.

Ness: :ness: Ness is actually good when put in the right hands. Appley has a pretty good Ness. Anyways, Ness can be very good. He has a projectile that can stop you in place for a potential grab setup, hits pretty hard, his side smash can reflect projectiles, is up and down smash can gimp, and his neutral-b can chase and kill off the stage when an opponent is recovering. He does however, have a hard to use recovery. Not only that, but if he is high enough above the stage, he can be gimped or spiked with ease. If that were not the case, he'd be higher on my list.

Peach: :peach: From what I've seen from Peach mains so far, it's just straight turnips. If her survivability wasn't that high, I promise she'd be lower. Peach is unique, and from what I've seen, she kills by gimps, not hard hits. Some Peaches do go for the hard kills, but most just like to gimp or stop their opponent. That's it really.

C:

(This is where the bashing begins. Beware.)

Samus: :samus: I bet when Sakurai had the idea to put ZSS in the game, he thought Samus would be the more powerful one. Look how wrong he was. Even in Flash 2, Samus is still the weaker one. Samus has many projectile options, that are easy to see from miles away. MILES. The only way anyone could get hit by a Samus projectile is if you were caught off guard, you were close as hell, or you had to let go of shield, because it would break if you didn't. Her grab is the s*** in the game, with the most lag. Her recovery is s*** as well, is a very stiff character. Overall, if she didn't have those projectiles, she'd be lower on my list.
(Anyone below this line doesn't deserve a description from me)

Jigglypuff: :jigglypuff: Wall of Pain to rest. That's all I've seen. Bite me.

Kirby: :kirby: 6 jumps. A spammy up-b and horrible side-b. Bite me twice.

Sonic: :sonic: He can't hit anything. Also 2fast4me.

Megaman: :megaman: Spam. (He could be better in Beta, so I'm not going to completely brush him off.)

Wario: :wario: Ask Ifart...

Chibi-Robo: :chibirobo: I don't understand why people give Chibi all this credit. I might move him up if i get some reasons.

Sora: :sora: The most sorry character of this game. Lets just hope beta saves him.

All done. Took me a day to write. Now this can be as bad as AnimeKing's tier list. I don't know. But anyways, like I said before, this is based off of what ive seen from these characters. I even gave explanations to most of them. Let's just hope it's not that bad. If you got to the end of this long thing, I commend you. I used a bit over 20,00 characters. My fingers hurt, I'm out, post your feedback yadda yadda yadda....

Edit: I forgot I reapplied for TSF, this might f*** up my chance of getting in. Im so stupid!

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Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:27 pm
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Welp, I'm now notorious for using DK.

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Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:15 pm
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LilMac you dipsht! Why is Naruto so HIGH?

Seriously though, I don't feel that Naruto is higher than BM, Sheik, and especially not Zelda

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Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:21 pm
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Naruto is so overrated. Also, I disagree with Pikachu's spot.
He has one of the best chaingrab Dthrows in the game
A stupid disjointed Uair
A really good Usmash
Thunder kills at like 20 with bad DI
The whole thunder hitbox meteor smashes (making it one of the best edgeguarding tools against some characters)
A dumb Dair loool

And many other things too. But I mean, I don't blame you for putting Pikachu so low, theres like only 2 good Pikachu players.

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Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:31 pm
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Also, DK's recovery is really really good. His main flaw is how easy he is to combo (Sheik/Zelda vs DK op)

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Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:06 pm
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ShadowMario2600 wrote:
Also, DK's recovery is really really good. His main flaw is how easy he is to combo (Sheik/Zelda vs DK op)


I said lack of a vertical recovery. Knock him deep enough and he's not coming back

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:pikachu: :zelda: :sheik: are to low.

:goku: is to high.

No comment on the rest (thank you for acknowledging that Chibi is garbage).

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Miracle--7 wrote:
especially not Zelda

Do we need to start discussing this AGAIN?

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Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:46 pm
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0_ZeroSuitUser_0 wrote:
:goku: is to high.

You're usually sarcastic so I can't tell if this is a joke or not. If not, mind to explain?

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Cruisin wrote:
0_ZeroSuitUser_0 wrote:
:goku: is to high.

You're usually sarcastic so I can't tell if this is a joke or not. If not, mind to explain?

I don't have a problem with him being a-tier. I just don't think he's above Shiek, Pickachu, or Zelda. It's also based on match experience. No Goku players ever made me go like "Wow... That's broken..." The Goku's that I have faced are... Good, but... Eh. It's hard to describe. Me and Mirwaiss tend to go even a lot, always bringing each other down to are last stocks.

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I think this is the first time someone actually put Pika at a relatively
accurate spot

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Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:32 pm
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Corvid Crow wrote:
I think this is the first time someone actually put Pika at a relatively
accurate spot


finally

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I'm pretty sure :captainfalcon: has way more bad MUs than you think. Even if he was A tier, he'd be at the bottom.

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so whats wrong with this one?

falcon stupidly high, hes loses a lot of mus
chibi is better than everyone in c tier
mega man could be higher
link and ichigo are better characters than yoshi in the current meta
tails should be below bbm
black mage is great and deserves A tier yet he is no where near zelda sheik or bbm in the current meta
naruto should be beside tails and bbm, mainly because we havent seen standout naruto play yet
zss should be in s tier alongside mk
dk should be below goku
sora imo should be above wario considering the fact that he is the most popular low tier and is underrated a little in that he isnt the worst character in the game
kirby should be below sonic and mm
goku should be above dk and possibly marth considering his mus

Now the things i believe you have gotten correct

Pika next to bbm and tails is perfect
fox in top 5 is about right
generally the low tiers are "agreeable"

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:53 am
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0_ZeroSuitUser_0 wrote:
I don't have a problem with him being a-tier. I just don't think he's above Shiek, Pickachu, or Zelda. It's also based on match experience. No Goku players ever made me go like "Wow... That's broken..." The Goku's that I have faced are... Good, but... Eh. It's hard to describe. Me and Mirwaiss tend to go even a lot, always bringing each other down to are last stocks.

There is one player I would mention that would probably change your mind about Goku and realize how broken he is, but I won't do him dirty like that. All I can really say for sure is that Goku's MU chart is among the best in the game. Only MUs he loses are :metaknight: and :zerosuitsamus: although :zelda: is debatable and he goes 50 50 with :sheik:. Also, some of his moves are extremely good that you can say they`re broken, like KK dair.

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:42 am
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