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DSwift's tier list. 
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Yeah I think Wario's only slightly better than Sora. Both can combo really well, but Sora's many disjoints does not make up for his lack of good finishers, while Wario's good finishers are so powerful that they somewhat make up for his lack of disjoints aside from Waft. Key word being slightly though, because Sora is a lot faster and has more range than Wario does, and he might even have more consistent KO power than Wario. Not to mention how many MUs Wario has that are impactingly not in his favor.

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Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:32 pm
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TheBlockisHot34 wrote:
As a Naruto main, I'd love to hear your reasoning behind your placement of Naruto. Personally, I think he's top tier.

Predominantly, I don't feel Naruto is particularly strong in tournament play. I've yet to see anyone win a tournament solo with Naruto, whereas I've seen others win solo with lower tier characters. (No offence to you). I feel Naruto is fairly overrated due to his online prominence, and what really holds him back is a mostly even MU vs Sora.

I was going to put him in A tier, but I felt he was more of a "viable with secondaries" character.

Sora: show
WRXJoey wrote:
I would say Sora is the worst but he doesn't belong in his own s#%$& tier imo. The difference between how good wario is alongside sora isn't that big of a gap to warrant a separate tir.
Doof wrote:
Yeah I think Wario's only slightly better than Sora. Both can combo really well, but Sora's many disjoints does not make up for his lack of good finishers, while Wario's good finishers are so powerful that they somewhat make up for his lack of disjoints aside from Waft. Key word being slightly though, because Sora is a lot faster and has more range than Wario does, and he might even have more consistent KO power than Wario. Not to mention how many MUs Wario has that are impactingly not in his favor.


Noted. Sora has been moved to C Tier.

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Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:43 am
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Is one even MU with Sora a big deal?

Sure, Naruto doesn't have tournament placings. But most characters don't. Additionally, due to how he plays at a high level most people who play him stick with a more offensive style which is not necessarily good at all.

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Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:00 pm
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TheCodeSamurai wrote:
Is one even MU with Sora a big deal?

Sure, Naruto doesn't have tournament placings. But most characters don't. Additionally, due to how he plays at a high level most people who play him stick with a more offensive style which is not necessarily good at all.


1. Correct. This is a bit silly.

2. You highlighted my point about why Naruto isn't top tier right there. By definition, a top tier is a character that is the best to use in tournament, and via this point gets the best results. Admittedly, not many people get tournament results with other characters, but Naruto ultimately cannot be considered a top tier for this reason. People win tournaments or place high in them with Fox, Zelda and Sheik, sometimes on their own. Naruto's results are with him as a secondary, and it's not always sure if he's used in Grand Finals.

One could argue Naruto is high tier, because people like TheBlockisHot34, scumbag and ZERO_OR have done well with him, however, I feel until Naruto starts placing higher or getting more results, he can't be placed much higher.

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Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:43 am
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In Melee this way of making tier lists works because the metagame is big enough that somewhere, a dedicated player has tried in a small tournament to win with a character and done well or not. In SSF2, how many characters have never been represented solo in a major tournament, much less with a player with enough skill to win a tournament or come close in a community where the top players attend nearly every tournament? If you just straight-up banned the top 25 of the FCR from attending a tournament to simulate a local, I guarantee you'd see more characters win. But in this metagame, who the top players decide to main has a big impact. For example, the fact that Lunary plays MK and Lloyd means that it's really hard to win a tournament if you play Falcon, and Kyoz will make your life hell if you play DK.

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Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:17 pm
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Code, you are further enforcing my point.

No rep = No results = Not top tier.

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Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:45 pm
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What is niche use btw?

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Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:43 pm
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RedHedgehog399 wrote:
What is niche use btw?

Characters that can only really stand well as counterpicks in certain matchups, but aren't good enough necessarily to win on their own, and will almost never win on their own.
Putting it simply, they have limited viablility and hence a niche use.

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Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:02 pm
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I'd think that Sonic COULD be good for a tournament on his own , it just depends on the skill and the knowledge of the player....

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Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:18 pm
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RedHedgehog399 wrote:
I'd think that Sonic COULD be good for a tournament on his own , it just depends on the skill and the knowledge of the player....

A really good Sonic could probably get far, but it's not particularly easy as his overall MUs aren't great.

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Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:20 pm
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That's I'm gonna fight every single character using Sonic for tomorrow! It'll give me a real challenge!

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Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:25 pm
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RedHedgehog399 wrote:
That's I'm gonna fight every single character using Sonic for tomorrow! It'll give me a real challenge!

Good luck with that then.

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Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:28 pm
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Matter of fact I'll record a video of it and if I get lose even 1 stock , I'll give you a custom edited screenshot! Sound good?

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ok then.
sounds good.

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Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:55 pm
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I'm gonna do it like this: 1 stock, 0 items, 100% start damage!

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