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3 or 4 stocks? 
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http://www.strawpoll.me/14336451


To alot of people, the switch from 9b to beta has slowed them down. The new lag off recovery landings, buffering and even port priority has drastically changed the way people play SSF2. So, should a change in stock count from 4 to 3 be efficient? It was lopsided answers on my end, so I created this poll to see the true results and maybe but unlikely, the ruleset will change based off the results.

Discussion below you know the drill.

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Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:26 pm
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We've deeply discussed this a couple times before here and a little bit here.

I stand by the same arguement I had when this question came up in the early months of v0.9b when tournaments started doing 3-stock: punish-game is not thoroughly developed yet. Making this change now will only make it harder to go back to 4-stocks because everyone will get too accustom to 3 and fear to change.

We don't need to go through this again. Give skill-levels growth-time to optimize.

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Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:31 pm
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Zalozis wrote:
We've deeply discussed this a couple times before here and a little bit here.

I stand by the same arguement I had when this question came up in the early months of v0.9b when tournaments started doing 3-stock: punish-game is not thoroughly developed yet. Making this change now will only make it harder to go back to 4-stocks because everyone will get too accustom to 3 and fear to change.

We don't need to go through this again. Give skill-levels growth-time to optimize.


Normally, id agree with this statement, but Beta's changes are way too drastic for players to optimize anything. Certain mechanics were ripped from the game, and horribly slowed the game down. It could be a full year and I'd put my life savings on Beta remaining the same. Obviously a patch cooould change this, which makes your statement still valid in my eyes, but would it hurt to try it out?

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Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:07 am
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Had it been .2-, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you. I feel as though .3 fixed the meta to the point where 4 stock 8 min is still a reasonable ruleset, though if we were talking about .2, 3 stock 7 min was the reasonable ruleset

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Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:31 pm
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.2 actually felt faster than .3
Personally I'm a bigger fan of 3 stocks because it leads to faster paced gameplay which is overall more fun to play and watch as a competitive person
3 stocks would also make tournaments go faster, and 3 stocks can make a 10 fps connection less depressing in a tournament.
I think trying out 3 stocks would only be a benefit for the competitive community in ssf2

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Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:48 pm
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Marth-Player wrote:
3 stocks can make a 10 fps connection less depressing in a tournament.
I get why you would say that, but that... type of connection shouldn't be happening in a tournament in the first place.

The game's speed isn't drastically changed more than it was before. Ground speed in this game is still high, platform movement is incredible. Even if you aren't doing consistent combos, it takes landing 8-9 moves average for most characters to get their opponent to 100%+. We don't have the safety of low percents from crouch-canceling either, so getting a hit that goes into at least one other moves isn't difficult either. We have all the necessary options for constant neutral interactions. I don't know what some of you guys are going thought: unless you're not playing offline, or having less than 25 fps connections on most of your online matches. I don't have many matches going over more than 4 & 1/2 minutes; which is only slightly longer than your local tourney-level Melee match.

The only thing I would say is because of port-priority: Player-2 has to be more methodically and slow-pace in order to avoid being ransacked-overwhelmed by Player-1's offensive. So that could slow down match-pace, depending on the character MU.

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Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:14 am
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You would be surprised on how often it actually happens due to the lag rules being so lenient in tournaments nowadays

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Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:17 am
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That is unrelated to issue though. 3 or 4 stocks, laggy is a torture to play through; which is the player's fault, not the ruleset. It doesn't impact players with good connections are play offline.

I wouldn't mind discussing this more. But unless you can argue, even with fast neutral exchanges, the games still resulting in 6-7 minutes each in high-level play, there's no reason to change. It's still the issue of players not playing correctly.

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Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:59 pm
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Anddd my opinion has changed after playing in a tour which ran 3 stocks as a ruleset
Despite winning I still think that 3 stocks really just benefits laggers + campy playstyles + jank2win which really doesnt help the meta further itself

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Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:25 pm
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Zalozis wrote:
Marth-Player wrote:
3 stocks can make a 10 fps connection less depressing in a tournament.
I get why you would say that, but that... type of connection shouldn't be happening in a tournament in the first place.

The game's speed isn't drastically changed more than it was before. Ground speed in this game is still high, platform movement is incredible. Even if you aren't doing consistent combos, it takes landing 8-9 moves average for most characters to get their opponent to 100%+. We don't have the safety of low percents from crouch-canceling either, so getting a hit that goes into at least one other moves isn't difficult either. We have all the necessary options for constant neutral interactions. I don't know what some of you guys are going thought: unless you're not playing offline, or having less than 25 fps connections on most of your online matches. I don't have many matches going over more than 4 & 1/2 minutes; which is only slightly longer than your local tourney-level Melee match.

The only thing I would say is because of port-priority: Player-2 has to be more methodically and slow-pace in order to avoid being ransacked-overwhelmed by Player-1's offensive. So that could slow down match-pace, depending on the character MU.

i love how you talk about tournaments like you've actually entered one.

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Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:00 pm
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Yupia gtfo lmao

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Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:02 pm
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The_Kid wrote:
i love how you talk about tournaments like you've actually entered one.
Ouch. I don't think that devalues my points made, but that seriously hurts because of how much I want to be involved with the community; just get too busy with life to do so.

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Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:44 am
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Zalozis wrote:
The_Kid wrote:
i love how you talk about tournaments like you've actually entered one.
Ouch. I don't think that devalues my points made, but that seriously hurts because of how much I want to be involved with the community; just get too busy with life to do so.

Don't be hurt. It's Yupia. Tell him to go deepthroat Gax in NSB or something.

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Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:04 am
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:isaac: Wait, how do you know if it's really Yupia? Is it because he hasn't denied your claim?

Edit: I just realized that only Yupia would talk s*** to Zalozis, because of that thread about a "new tech" he made. If he were a different user then his text would be different and he would try to be nice, unless they weren't sane.

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Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:46 am
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finallyfantastic7 wrote:
:isaac: Wait, how do you know if it's really Yupia? Is it because he hasn't denied your claim?

Edit: I just realized that only Yupia would talk s*** to Zalozis, because of that thread about a "new tech" he made. If he were a different user then his text would be different and he would try to be nice, unless they weren't sane.

Yupia goes by "The Kid" now.

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Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:51 pm
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