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Matchup Spread 
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Possible matchups for newcomers and revamped characters. But really any matchup can be said here.

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Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:28 am
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I was actually making a Kirby MU chart ever since Beta was released. I'll post it here when I'm finished

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Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:59 am
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jigs beats issac.

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Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:45 pm
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Been working on one for DK, and while I think a lot of his matchups are either even or slightly losing, he could be the most stage dependent for MU character in the game.

Either way, only things that I kind of have a feel for is that DK loses super hard to Bandanna Dee and Bowser, kinda loses to Link, Mega Man and Tails, and the majority of characters otherwise are kinda in a hell of DK will barely win or lose but it's 100% based on the stage.

Marth independently is a character that the MU's either even, or -2 or worse depending on the stage you end up being on in my opinion.


Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:55 pm
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Bandana Dee bodies DK. Considering BD has 3 ranges moves, almost no endlag on most of his attacks and down-b, which boosts him forward and KOs most characters at 120-140%. Nearly 100% to light characters like Kirby, Jigglypuff etc

His Dair also spikes so that's good for edgeguarding. His combo game is good, which is what DK players don't want in their' opponents and also a considerable amount of air time.

Not to mention that even if DK tries to use any of his smash attacks, he will most likely fail because of the size of BD and will be left open to even more attacks. But if he succeeds and BD's percentage is high, he is done for, in most cases.

As of now, I would say it's 70-30 or even 80-20 if you really know how to utilize every move of Bandana Dee very well. This is just my opinion, though.

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Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:48 pm
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Falco has a lot of good match ups but I think he has trouble with Wario, no?

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Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:59 pm
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NASAPeepo wrote:
Bandana Dee bodies DK. Considering BD has 3 ranges moves, almost no endlag on most of his attacks and down-b, which boosts him forward and KOs most characters at 120-140%. Nearly 100% to light characters like Kirby, Jigglypuff etc
more or less, barring errors the kill power Bandanna has is something tame for DK,
in terms of the concerns- like if you do it right you shouldn't die too much before 150ish

His Dair also spikes so that's good for edgeguarding. His combo game is good, which is what DK players don't want in their' opponents and also a considerable amount of air time.
Interestingly enough the problem with the recovery portion of this MU isn't the dair,
mostly because at 0 time should DK be below Bandanna when recovering unless you're trying to sweetspot or some weird stuff happens. Point is always go high. The bigger issue is Bandanna's bair, fair and the longer version of his neutral b (the wave of magic not the projectile, though the projectile helps as well if you don't recover high enough (or fail to sweetspot when forced to go low.) Bair is decently powerful and unless you're already in your up-b to armor/range through it, it can actually kill DK offstage around 100. Recovering high is safest to prevent most of the things bandanna can do, granted, means you take more damage because he will keep DK from landing, honestly for free, but at least he won't kill you (other than tipper up air after you're above 120ish? But besides the combo game this is the hardest part of the matchup.

Not to mention that even if DK tries to use any of his smash attacks, he will most likely fail because of the size of BD and will be left open to even more attacks. But if he succeeds and BD's percentage is high, he is done for, in most cases.

Honestly this is one of the few saving graces. Main thing is you don't spam/ever use DK smashes in this matchup unless you're gonna hit, you managed to side B him,
etc. B-throw at ledge kills Bandanna around 95-100 on most stages, little more if stale or in the middle, Bair, especially if Bandanna is recovering is equally strong as is Fair (kinda), that being said you must space decently well or you just eat percent, or in the case of the edgeguard, he'll get back for free. Anything else is because he screwed up. Like most of this matchup is you getting your few punishes and getting the damage. 2 or 3 will usually put him in death percent. You prob could 0-death, but tbh between nair/up b Bandanna can escape.

Most of neutral/when fighting him, more or less is trying to bait/punish. Shield is your best friend and a terrible idea. If he's far away, it's fine, all he can do is throw out neutral b's. just shield, etc. Midrange you more or less need to be in shield unless you are guarenteed a punish, or he can't retaliate after you dtilt him. Eventually you'll get shield poked, so besides that issue, you ened to also be aware but be careful since if Bandanna gets too close usually grabs are one of the main ways he starts his combo game (assuming you didn't throw out some random laggy move in neutral). Close range is usually bad. Jab is not bad for DK, as is grab/dtilt or nair. problem is Banadanna's Nair is fast and usually comes out before your options, so it's either jab or get out if close. Shielding usually gets you grabbed. Side B makes DK cry because other than jumps it is impossible to dodge other than perfect shield. Damage isn't the problem, the problem is the sticking effect. DK needs to be mobile, and in mid to long range. the Side B even if shield has enough shield stun/the move seems to still do the whole sticks you in place thing. This ensures Bandanna gets free punishes on you such as grabs, nair, etc. DK's big body means you either outspace or jump over it. Jumping's best even tho it's still a big problem because the hitboxes are weird. Fortunately jumping's not super bad because this move is pretty slow. But shielding this still gets DK stuck in shield for much longer than you ever wanna be. Most stuff isn't safe.

Speaking of that, the only 'safe' things you throw out as DK are Bair, Nair and Forward/Down Tilt. those are the only moves that are both long and fast enough to not have the disjoints ruin you. Utilt works if Bandanna's above you and isn't throwing out an aerial/if you are catching him with the hitbox aroudn you. Point is DK loses hard, like if the Bandanna Dee is smart, any poor move choice (Nair is eh, like out of your "safe" move options it loses to aerials w/o being spaced.) gets you grabbed, baired, etc. into a combo. Now while Waddle Dee has some decent kill power, that's gonna be the hard part simply because ANY screwup means you eat...well i'll say if you're super lucky/they screw up 30. Usually it's a good 70% or more, especially if you end up below him. After you're above 100% you kinda can fight him, not super well, but given his kill moves being meh, you can kinda challenge him some.

As of now, I would say it's 70-30 or even 80-20 if you really know how to utilize every move of Bandana Dee very well. This is just my opinion, though.

As of now, not entirely sure if this, or Bowser is actually worse for DK. I will say that I don't think it's worse than 65:35, reasons being that DK can also combo Bandanna and kill him much earlier, reason this MU is incredibly bad regardless is because as DK you are forced to be defensive. there is no being the aggressor. If you throw out any move other than grab/jab/bair/naiir/ftilt/dtilt/utilt, you'll lose. Most of those lose to nair. not shielding the fair/neutral b gets you in a situation where you get comboed, grab is bad for you.

TL;DR - this matchup is awful and tedious


Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:26 am
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firewater wrote:
NASAPeepo wrote:
Bandana Dee bodies DK. Considering BD has 3 ranges moves, almost no endlag on most of his attacks and down-b, which boosts him forward and KOs most characters at 120-140%. Nearly 100% to light characters like Kirby, Jigglypuff etc
more or less, barring errors the kill power Bandanna has is something tame for DK,
in terms of the concerns- like if you do it right you shouldn't die too much before 150ish

His Dair also spikes so that's good for edgeguarding. His combo game is good, which is what DK players don't want in their' opponents and also a considerable amount of air time.
Interestingly enough the problem with the recovery portion of this MU isn't the dair,
mostly because at 0 time should DK be below Bandanna when recovering unless you're trying to sweetspot or some weird stuff happens. Point is always go high. The bigger issue is Bandanna's bair, fair and the longer version of his neutral b (the wave of magic not the projectile, though the projectile helps as well if you don't recover high enough (or fail to sweetspot when forced to go low.) Bair is decently powerful and unless you're already in your up-b to armor/range through it, it can actually kill DK offstage around 100. Recovering high is safest to prevent most of the things bandanna can do, granted, means you take more damage because he will keep DK from landing, honestly for free, but at least he won't kill you (other than tipper up air after you're above 120ish? But besides the combo game this is the hardest part of the matchup.

Not to mention that even if DK tries to use any of his smash attacks, he will most likely fail because of the size of BD and will be left open to even more attacks. But if he succeeds and BD's percentage is high, he is done for, in most cases.

Honestly this is one of the few saving graces. Main thing is you don't spam/ever use DK smashes in this matchup unless you're gonna hit, you managed to side B him,
etc. B-throw at ledge kills Bandanna around 95-100 on most stages, little more if stale or in the middle, Bair, especially if Bandanna is recovering is equally strong as is Fair (kinda), that being said you must space decently well or you just eat percent, or in the case of the edgeguard, he'll get back for free. Anything else is because he screwed up. Like most of this matchup is you getting your few punishes and getting the damage. 2 or 3 will usually put him in death percent. You prob could 0-death, but tbh between nair/up b Bandanna can escape.

Most of neutral/when fighting him, more or less is trying to bait/punish. Shield is your best friend and a terrible idea. If he's far away, it's fine, all he can do is throw out neutral b's. just shield, etc. Midrange you more or less need to be in shield unless you are guarenteed a punish, or he can't retaliate after you dtilt him. Eventually you'll get shield poked, so besides that issue, you ened to also be aware but be careful since if Bandanna gets too close usually grabs are one of the main ways he starts his combo game (assuming you didn't throw out some random laggy move in neutral). Close range is usually bad. Jab is not bad for DK, as is grab/dtilt or nair. problem is Banadanna's Nair is fast and usually comes out before your options, so it's either jab or get out if close. Shielding usually gets you grabbed. Side B makes DK cry because other than jumps it is impossible to dodge other than perfect shield. Damage isn't the problem, the problem is the sticking effect. DK needs to be mobile, and in mid to long range. the Side B even if shield has enough shield stun/the move seems to still do the whole sticks you in place thing. This ensures Bandanna gets free punishes on you such as grabs, nair, etc. DK's big body means you either outspace or jump over it. Jumping's best even tho it's still a big problem because the hitboxes are weird. Fortunately jumping's not super bad because this move is pretty slow. But shielding this still gets DK stuck in shield for much longer than you ever wanna be. Most stuff isn't safe.

Speaking of that, the only 'safe' things you throw out as DK are Bair, Nair and Forward/Down Tilt. those are the only moves that are both long and fast enough to not have the disjoints ruin you. Utilt works if Bandanna's above you and isn't throwing out an aerial/if you are catching him with the hitbox aroudn you. Point is DK loses hard, like if the Bandanna Dee is smart, any poor move choice (Nair is eh, like out of your "safe" move options it loses to aerials w/o being spaced.) gets you grabbed, baired, etc. into a combo. Now while Waddle Dee has some decent kill power, that's gonna be the hard part simply because ANY screwup means you eat...well i'll say if you're super lucky/they screw up 30. Usually it's a good 70% or more, especially if you end up below him. After you're above 100% you kinda can fight him, not super well, but given his kill moves being meh, you can kinda challenge him some.

As of now, I would say it's 70-30 or even 80-20 if you really know how to utilize every move of Bandana Dee very well. This is just my opinion, though.

As of now, not entirely sure if this, or Bowser is actually worse for DK. I will say that I don't think it's worse than 65:35, reasons being that DK can also combo Bandanna and kill him much earlier, reason this MU is incredibly bad regardless is because as DK you are forced to be defensive. there is no being the aggressor. If you throw out any move other than grab/jab/bair/naiir/ftilt/dtilt/utilt, you'll lose. Most of those lose to nair. not shielding the fair/neutral b gets you in a situation where you get comboed, grab is bad for you.

TL;DR - this matchup is awful and tedious


Alright, thanks for adding onto my message. I feel like that my 80-20 (unless you are playing against a stupid DK, that is) matchup was stupid, 70-30 would be fine.

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Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:03 pm
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Have my crappy MU chart for Kirby.
I have no Pikachu or Bomberman experience and I don't really know how good or bad the Luigi MU is atm.
Attachment:
SSF2MUKirby.PNG
SSF2MUKirby.PNG [ 221.12 KiB | Viewed 4553 times ]

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Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:21 pm
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Opinion from a :metaknight: main who's still learning the MUs.

Imo, the hardest MU I see for :metaknight: might be :isaac: .

If your under him and try to start an up air string, he can gaia which can stop you, his vines into up tilt or up smash I think kills :metaknight: at like 94% (I think someone said it kills him even earlier than that lol, no wonder they nerfed :isaac: 's up air).

I think someone else said that :metaknight: can actually beat :isaac: , but I'm still practicing, but I do know, you have to air dodge a TON in that MU to get in.

Against :falco: , I think :metaknight: actually wins that mainly cause of how much easier it is to combo him cause of his wait, and some of MK combos can make him end up off stage and that's where :metaknight: really shines in that MU cause of how good his edge guarding is (though you have to know how to edge guard perfectly as MK cause you can also end up sending :falco: back off stage instead of back off, and also have to space out his recovery so illusion or fire bird doesn't hit you). :falco: dair, destroys destroys MK too.

I kinda feel like :link: vs :metaknight: is even.

I haven't fought many :wario: , but because of how good :wario: 's up air and combos are, it might be even between :wario: and :metaknight: ?

I feel like when you decide to space/bait out :ichigo: , :metaknight: wins that MU, even if :ichigo: uses his projectile, it gives :metaknight: (if already in the air) enough time to quickly fly over it and hit him.

:megaman: vs :metaknight: , honestly, if we are going numbers here, i'd honestly say 55-45 in :megaman: favor, or even. The only projectile :megaman: has that annoys :metaknight: so much seems to be mostly crash bomb (if that's the name of it?).

Again, these are opinions, not facts (I think), so don't need to hate reply ty.

Also, I may make a chart too after gax saga for how else I feel about :metaknight: MUs.

Edit: I also am not mentioning everything that would/could happen in those MUs too.

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Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:48 pm
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https://gyazo.com/d2d98857481f404ed1f83607d5eb3b7f

Pretty much the Mega Man matchup chart.

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Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:03 pm
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playridise wrote:
https://gyazo.com/d2d98857481f404ed1f83607d5eb3b7f

Pretty much the Mega Man matchup chart.

I can't imagine Bomberman being even with Mega Man tbh. Doesn't his pellets go through the bombs?

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Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:33 pm
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MeleeWaluigi wrote:
playridise wrote:
https://gyazo.com/d2d98857481f404ed1f83607d5eb3b7f

Pretty much the Mega Man matchup chart.

I can't imagine Bomberman being even with Mega Man tbh. Doesn't his pellets go through the bombs?

Yea but what makes it even is the fact that Bomberman can limit Mega Man's movement from bombs so he can't just go to the edge of the stage in order to safely attack. So Mega Man has to be very careful when Bomberman places his bombs. But what prevents it from being a bad matchup as well comes from the fact that Bomberman requires setup for the bombs which gives Mega Man some time to setup his tools and get bomberman offstage with grab -> crash bomb and such.

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Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:38 am
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Def has been a while since i've been able to play (working a camp, wifi isn't bad but the college has weird s*** that prevents the online system for SSF2 from working (have tried, all DC's). But between theorycrafting + what i remember before being on this forced sabbatical for 3 weeks, this is what i had in terms of DK MU's.

Long and short of it is that most DK matchups are both stage dependent and very volatile- the chart is less terrible than it appears because I think most of his MU's are close to even- he only has a few in either direction that are solid wins or losses.

(get a secondary for Bandanna and Bowser though, in my opinion).


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Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:55 pm
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firewater wrote:
Def has been a while since i've been able to play (working a camp, wifi isn't bad but the college has weird s*** that prevents the online system for SSF2 from working (have tried, all DC's). But between theorycrafting + what i remember before being on this forced sabbatical for 3 weeks, this is what i had in terms of DK MU's.

Long and short of it is that most DK matchups are both stage dependent and very volatile- the chart is less terrible than it appears because I think most of his MU's are close to even- he only has a few in either direction that are solid wins or losses.

(get a secondary for Bandanna and Bowser though, in my opinion).

Luigi slightly beats DK imo BC combos.

DK defiantly beats Bowser. He has a better grab game, better frame data, less landing lag, and is faster than Bowser. DK is basically a better Bowser in every way besides kill power and survivability.

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:43 am
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