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Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta
http://forums.mcleodgaming.com/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=44901
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Author:  Lermonz [ Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

Can you maybe provide some explanation for these?
  • Mario being the best
  • Tails not being the best
  • Marth being lower than Fox, Falco, and Ichigo
  • Luigi being in A tier
  • Pit being in A tier
  • Bandana being in A tier
  • Lloyd being bottom of A tier
  • Peach being so close to Falcon
  • Black Mage in B tier
  • Link in B tier
  • Sandbag being mid-tier
  • Game & Watch and Meta Knight being so close
  • Zero Suit being mid-tier
  • Bomberman being below Zero Suit
  • Mega Man and Ness being on the bottom half of the tier list
  • Naruto not being bottom tier
  • Wario not being bottom 10
  • Pac-man being bottom 10
  • DK not being top tier
  • Chibi not being very close to top tier
  • Samus not being 2nd best
  • Zelda being E tier
  • Bowser being bottom tier
  • Kirby being the worst character

Author:  playridise [ Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

Lermonz wrote:
Can you maybe provide some explanation for these?
  • Mario being the best
  • Tails not being the best
  • Marth being lower than Fox, Falco, and Ichigo
  • Luigi being in A tier
  • Pit being in A tier
  • Bandana being in A tier
  • Lloyd being bottom of A tier
  • Peach being so close to Falcon
  • Black Mage in B tier
  • Link in B tier
  • Sandbag being mid-tier
  • Game & Watch and Meta Knight being so close
  • Zero Suit being mid-tier
  • Bomberman being below Zero Suit
  • Mega Man and Ness being on the bottom half of the tier list
  • Naruto not being bottom tier
  • Wario not being bottom 10
  • Pac-man being bottom 10
  • DK not being top tier
  • Chibi not being very close to top tier
  • Samus not being 2nd best
  • Zelda being E tier
  • Bowser being bottom tier
  • Kirby being the worst character


Pac-Man IS Bottom 10 tho.

Author:  UppercutMan [ Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explaining characters on my Tier List (High Tiers)

The Dark Chibi Knight wrote:
1.) Sandbag has one of the most exploitable recoveries in the game due to the fact that he has to literally blow himself up. His recovery is versatile and can cover a lot of ground, but he is very suspectible to getting edgeguarded and usually takes a ton of damage at the very least just from being offstage. Bag is also combo fodder for the entire cast, and he also happens to be super reliant on port in order to make things work. Having poor MUs against pretty much every high/top tier (Marth, Samus, Tails etc) also really does not help his case. Lack of disjoints and not having a reliable projectile (Capsule is too slow in competitive play really) as well as struggling hard with them only makes things worse in a metagame centered around those two attributes. All Bag has going for him is his insane punish game which keeps him around as a threat, but most definetly not a top tier.

2.) Recovery is not exactly "excellent" due to tethers being unreliable as of now. He does essentially get two extra armored mid-air jumps which is quite something, but both of these have a very preditable trajectory and are easily punishable during their ending lag. Luffy also regularly struggles killing (FSmash is hella weak for instance) if his opponent is aware of the common kill setups. His "range" is also more of a hindrance really: Luffy has giant hurtboxes that reach farther than his hitboxes (basically, every time Luffy extends his limbs thats a huge area he can be hit in before his own attack can connect), he lacks disjoints and a reliable projectile just like Bag, and he also suffers immensly from not having port priority.

3.) Falco's recovery is anything but good, what are you on? He has arguably the most linear recovery in the entire game, loss of Up B angles really hurts him a lot. Side B shortens are a mixup that he desperately needs, but offstage Falco should be easy gimp fodder (unless you try to take a port Up B head on). Down B also has rather poor range and doesnt kill nearly as early as you make it out to be. Falco is still a strong character thanks to his crazy combo game, having an excellent projectile and just by virtue of being a spacie (shine pressure, solid frame data all around, Dair), but far too exploitable for his own good - very easy to combo, very easy to edgeguard thanks to a short and predictable recovery, easy to KO due to light weight. A strong glass cannon that most people put in high tier.

4.) Bowser also has one of the worse recoveries in the game - Up B is slow, doesnt travel all that far, and is incredibly telegraphed during travel, his airspeed is lacking, Fireball boosts only work if you have a lot of height to work with. He has a strong combo game, sure, but everyone has that. Bowser is incredibly slow, a huge hurtbox that is very easy to combo for years, struggles landing a lot, struggles offstage lacks disjoints, lacks a quick projectile (still, having Fireball at all is undeniably a major buff), struggles hard against projectiles and disjoints etc. His regular landing animation is also incredibly laggy, making Bowser very poor at air to ground conversions as well as even more suspectible to combos. His saving graces are his range, raw power and edgeguarding game really, but that doesnt make a top tier (look at Melee Ganon for instance) by any means.

5.) Luigi has poor range, a long but very exploitable recovery (Side B and Up B are super linear, while Down B has punishable ending lag), a solid projectile and, as any other character in this game, a good combo game. His range is piss poor, the character has no airspeed at all, his movement is super awkward, he too has issues against disjoints, struggles landing a lot and just gets outclassed as a character in basically every aspect. There are many reasons why almost every even remotely decent tier list puts him at the bottom.

6.) Mario is fast, he has a high damage output, a solid projectile and good kill power, a great recovery and edgeguarding game along the obligatory good combo game. He does however lack range, one of the most important things to have in the current metagame. His limbs are rather short, he doesnt have disjoints and can get walled by disjoint characters rather easily as a result. Not much to say here to be honest, Mario is a solid high tier. Prolly Top 20.

7.) If you really think that Pikachu suffers from a poor recovery then I dont know what to tell you, but that is not the case, even with only 8 angles on Quick Attack. It remains one of the most versatile and unpredictable Up Bs in the entire game, cannot be challenged without disjoints if Pika has port and also doubles as the single best burst movement option in the game - Up B ledge cancels around the stage are scary and not even close to optimized. Ill give you that USmash and FSmash are strong, but DSmash most definetly is not a strong kill move, it doesnt even connect properly. Bair is also rather weak and not as strong as you make it out to be in all honesty. Pikas issues once again lie in lack of range on a majority of his moves (FSmash and DTilt are some of the more obvious exceptions and struggling against them as well as being very light and thus dieing early, but he has a very strong recovery, good edgeguarding tools, Quick Attack, Thunder Jolt, a strong combo game (duh) and very early kill setups thanks to Thunder. High tier character.

Im happy that you finally give some sort of reasoning, even though it is still (mostly) wrong. It at least allows me/us to see where these misconceptions are coming from. And as a disclaimer, noone (at least I hope that) is attacking you directly. You are just providing a poor opinion and giving poor reasoning behind it Im afraid. Thats not meant as an insult either, but thats how it is. Out of curiosity, what makes Tails/Fox/Lloyd low tiers, DK and Samus mid tiers and Chibi/Bomberman/Peach bottom tiers?


Thanks, man. And you're about to find out. Lets' a go! (I'll get to mid, low & bottom tiers later.)


:bandanadee: 8: Lightweight and Up-B is terrible with vertical recovery, but good with combo game, 5 jumps, and Up-B is an excellent kill confirm (though it must hit the startup frame.)
:marth: 9: Excellent with grab game (duh) and good combo game with excellent edgeguarding, but is below average weight and easy to be comboed.
:pit: 10: Amazing with recovery (3 jumps) and good with his air game, but has little KO options and nair & fair are weak and can escape out of.
:isaac: 11: Good with combo game and excellent grab game that can cause chaingrabs, but is slow and easy to camp.
:pacman: 12: Excellent edgeguarder (still good with combo game) and excellent recovery, but has poor KO options and has a terrible grab game.
:gameandwatch: 13: Good with combo game and has good KO options, but is lightweight (due to being 2-D and in fact the game is 2-D) and Judge 9 requires lots of luck.
:sora: 14: Great combo game, reliable kill moves, and good air game, but is below average weight, Flowmotion causes helpless state, and grab game is bad.
:megaman: 15: Good at combo game and has good projectile game and kill confirms, but is above average weight, Up-B is predictable, falls fast, and is susceptible to combos & chain grabs.

Am I out of subject?

Author:  BandanaDeeMain [ Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

Marth is a top 5 char and you shouldn't be comboed if you play marth right.
Bandana Dee is 15th at best, and up-B REALLY hurts him.
Isaac has the worst frame data in the game, he is a solid mid tier, he also has a bad recovery.
Pit has a horrible grab game and a easily gimpable recovery, and being unable to KO makes him really suffer.
Pac-Man is a bottom 6 character, he has a horrible combo and punish game, his recovery is gimpable, he can't KO reliably, and the only reason he is 25th is because Kyos won a tournament with him.
Game and Watch has a meh combo game, meh KO options, and is one of the lightest character in the game. He does have an amazing recovery, but he is a solid mid-low tier.
Sora is a solid mid tier, he has some good matchups but can be easily comboed and his grab game is pretty bad
Mega Man is fine.

Author:  Mr MuffinEtG [ Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

Does down throw to up air with Pit not work against people?

Author:  BandanaDeeMain [ Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

Nope, it doesn't and Pit is really bad and the only reason he's not the worst is because disjoints.

Author:  WiIE04 [ Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

Is there going to be one that adds Pichu?

Author:  BandanaDeeMain [ Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

I don't know.

Author:  RDash75 [ Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

You Forget Pichu.

Author:  BandanaDeeMain [ Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

That was made before Pichu BTW.

Author:  Ultimate Boyo Incoming [ Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

lolito52 wrote:
my version of the tier list, also #TopTierDee


There is a 1% percent chance Kirby should be bottom tier. He set Beta on fire with his new, smooth gameplay. His combo game is great as well. Peach should be bottom tier, because she is slow.

Author:  Lermonz [ Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

PsychoSSF2 wrote:
lolito52 wrote:
my version of the tier list, also #TopTierDee


There is a 1% percent chance Kirby should be bottom tier. He set Beta on fire with his new, smooth gameplay. His combo game is great as well. Peach should be bottom tier, because she is slow.

That tier list was made multiple updates ago. Why are you commenting about it now?

Also Peach is absolutely not bottom tier.

Author:  SnowyYh [ Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

Lermonz wrote:
Can you maybe provide some explanation for these?
  • Mario being the best
  • Tails not being the best
  • Marth being lower than Fox, Falco, and Ichigo
  • Luigi being in A tier
  • Pit being in A tier
  • Bandana being in A tier
  • Lloyd being bottom of A tier
  • Peach being so close to Falcon
  • Black Mage in B tier
  • Link in B tier
  • Sandbag being mid-tier
  • Game & Watch and Meta Knight being so close
  • Zero Suit being mid-tier
  • Bomberman being below Zero Suit
  • Mega Man and Ness being on the bottom half of the tier list
  • Naruto not being bottom tier
  • Wario not being bottom 10
  • Pac-man being bottom 10
  • DK not being top tier
  • Chibi not being very close to top tier
  • Samus not being 2nd best
  • Zelda being E tier
  • Bowser being bottom tier
  • Kirby being the worst character



Kirby isn't the worst on my list, i am going the left way each tier.

Author:  Ultimate Boyo Incoming [ Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

When You Combo Haste With D-Air As Black Mage

YouTube Video:

Author:  Lermonz [ Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tier List Maker has been updated for SSF2 Beta

SnowyYh wrote:
Lermonz wrote:
Can you maybe provide some explanation for these?
  • Mario being the best
  • Tails not being the best
  • Marth being lower than Fox, Falco, and Ichigo
  • Luigi being in A tier
  • Pit being in A tier
  • Bandana being in A tier
  • Lloyd being bottom of A tier
  • Peach being so close to Falcon
  • Black Mage in B tier
  • Link in B tier
  • Sandbag being mid-tier
  • Game & Watch and Meta Knight being so close
  • Zero Suit being mid-tier
  • Bomberman being below Zero Suit
  • Mega Man and Ness being on the bottom half of the tier list
  • Naruto not being bottom tier
  • Wario not being bottom 10
  • Pac-man being bottom 10
  • DK not being top tier
  • Chibi not being very close to top tier
  • Samus not being 2nd best
  • Zelda being E tier
  • Bowser being bottom tier
  • Kirby being the worst character



Kirby isn't the worst on my list, i am going the left way each tier.

Nobody does it like that ever why in the world would you do it that way. But even so Kirby's placement is still crazy wrong. He's top 15 easily

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