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TSF|Skylar wrote:
What if grounded Pick Up worked like a regular grab ontop of its "yo fam catch this" trait? Only on the grounded Down B, and if it connected with an opponent it would simply work like a normal grab, allowing Chibi to do his four throws as any other character. This would make the move far more useful in virtually every MU, and also help somewhat with Chibis piss poor OoS game if you could do JC Down B. The grabrange wouldnt be any further than a normal grab and nothing amazing in general, but it would be there and it would help a bunch. At least consider this idea :chibirobo:

Y'know what
This is actually something that definitely should happen, and if it doesn't, I'll be questioning the Devs almost as much as Pichu's current situation.
Why?
Black Mother-Fant'in Mage.
9b iteration, specifically.
When Haste was yet to be re-tooled, the range was short-yet-sweet and it basically was just like "Hey, I have a 5th throw."
The range wasn't far enough to be considered a different tool and the range was too..."odd," (In the terms of how it basically reached barely anywhere but had lag like a motherhubbard) to really be considered a command grab
Come Bebteb, and Black Mage's costumes got thrown into the trash (For worse, no better in this scenario, bring them back Refurin pls) and Haste got re-tooled to be much more Long-Distance.
Now we bring Luffy into this scenario too.
Black Mage?
He's got short-ranged grab, Haste is a long-distanced one
Luffy's got a short-ranged grab, and has 3 long-distanced command-os (One of which, neutral special, literally leading into a normal grabbed state)
So with Cheebo
He can have Pick Up as the short-ranged, not-as-laggy grab should anyone want to get in his breathing room whilst his Angle-able Z grab can be the long-ranged, kinda-laggy one
Simple case of Economics :sandbag:

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Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:33 pm
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^+1, plz
I didn't mind Haste's retool but I still miss the old mechanic, so it'd be swell if it was "given" to Chibi

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Last edited by Danny on Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:09 pm
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9b haste was basically Pac-man's grab if it was good.

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Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:09 pm
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Pick Up command grab didnt happen sadly. FeelsChibiMan

1.0.3.1 Changelog: show
Adjusted heavy knockback animations

Tumble Fall animation now can grab the ledge.

Up Smash:
First 2 hits:
Now use weight-based knockback (base knockback 75->weight-based knockback 60)
Lowered damage (4%->2%)
Final hit:
Raised angle (80->85)
Increased knockback scaling (90->120)

Forward Smash:
First 2 hits:
Now use weight-base knockback (power 70->wbkb 60)
Lowered angle (40->5)
Increased damage (2%->3%)
Final hit:
Increased damage (8%->9%)
Increased knockback growth (to 130)
Lowered angle (50->40)

Down Smash:
(Sweetspot/Sourspot) Equalized damage (19%/10%->16%/13%)
(Sweetspot/Sourspot) Reduced base knockback (90/50->55/25)
(Sweetspot/Sourspot) Increased knockback scaling (67/75->110/110)

Neutral aerial:
Both attackboxes have the same knockback/damage stats now (direction 32, base knockback 40, knockback scaling 100, damage 10%)

Forward aerial:
Reduced damage (9.5%->5%)
Raised angle (55->60)
Increased base knockback (35->40)
Increased knockback scaling (105->133)

Back aerial:
Reduced damage (15%->12%)
Lowered angle (50->40)
Increased base knockback (15->42)
Increased knockback scaling (90->105)

Up aerial:
(All Attackboxes) lowered angle (60->40)
Sweetspot:
Increased damage (11%->12%)
Increased base knockback (50->54)
Increased knockback scaling (95->110)

Neutral special:
Increased hitstun (30%->70%)


Not gonna comment on these in depth because I gotta hurry (shoutouts to Uni), but theres one thing that I just have to question: Forward Air. WHY ON EARTH would you nerf its damage output to 5%? Thats asinine. Out of all the things that needed nerfs (such as Nair damage, which happened), this definetly was not one of them. Halving the damage of Chibis most important spacing tool is absurd, and considering that Fair is also our primary combo tool our general damage output just got a huge nerf. You know what you could have nerfed instead? The hitbox. Fair's hitbox is incredibly huge and quite frankly too large, but noooo, we gotta halve its damage, thats how its better balanced. f*** s***.

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Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:47 am
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Sorry for the double post, but I felt like it :chibirobo:

Time to give a semi-educated opinion on Chibi's changelog. Beware: Day 1 stuff and rants below. You have been warned.


1.0.3.1 Changelog Opinions: show
Up Smash changes are great. Didnt even know that the first part actually has two hits, but doesnt really matter. Damage on those first two hits down by 2%, but the kicker here is definetly the slightly more vertical angle and most importantly the major KB buff the move got (90 -> 120 KBG), giving USmash notably more kill power. Nice. Now if only the move had a respectable hitbox, I would have preferred that change actually. But hey, we take those I guess :chibirobo:

FSmash is weird. Idk what happened but from what Ive seen so far the move now does two hits instead of 3 for... some reason even if the changelog mentioned first two hits? Uncharged 13%, fully charged 17%. Lower angle on the first hit prolly fixes both the random semispike and opponents being able to tech the move, which is nice. Final hit now also got buffed from a secret stat to 130, and it definetly feels more powerful now overall. Onhit the electro stuff also seems to lag the game a bit, so we can now pull a Lloyd! Sick! Joking aside, FSmash gets s thumbsup from me.


DSmash also got a weird change.Sweetspot damage got nerfed (19-27% -> 16-23%) but in exchange the sourspot got buffed (10-14% -> 13-19%) apparently. I really dont understand that change, buuut okay? Base KB got halved which is a trend for the entire roster, but KB Growth skyrocketed from a 67/75 to 110. Aside from questioning why the sourspot had the higher KBG, the increased KBG seems to make the move even stronger than before, killing an idle Fox on BF at 70% uncharged (previously 79%). This may be because of BF getting smaller blastzones ofc, but I believe in Chibi buffs :chibirobo: Speaking of Battlefield, is there any chance that you guys could lower the top platform a tiny bit? Chibi cannot reach it without the help of his Up B or the side platforms, which is kinda silly if you think about it. Or just buff our double jump please k thx


Nair damage nerf was to be expected but still saddens me. You actually messed up in the changelog btw, the second hit now does 9% instead of the 10% you advertised. Seems to be a reoccuring thing with our character I must say :pikachu: Nair1 now also deals "only" 10%, but if we get a proper spacing thats still 19% for a Nair, which still is great. 26% was straight up stupid, so I really dont mind. What I do mind however is the nerf Nair2 specifically got. Of course this may be my imagination, but Nair2 always seemed to pack more of a punch and send at a lower angle than Nair1, and at least the KB part got "confirmed" in the changelog. This is no longer the case. Why? It certainly didnt break the character, and getting that sweet sweet spacing and hit with the stronger but slower second hitbox felt always so rewarding and intuitive instead of going for the fast but weaker Nair1. Now that Nair2 actually deals less damage than its counterpart, this aspect is gone entirely and actually worse now, discouraging spacing the move well. Kinda weird for a spacing character I must say. If that change in particular could be reversed that would be amazing. A thing that I almost missed, but SH Nair now autocancels! The timing is super strict, but having less lag is always a good thing. I honestly didnt even think of this one, but seeing as it was the only aerial in Chibis arsenal that didnt autocancel I guess that made sense. Neato.


FORWARD AERIAL not only is a meme that belongs in a different game, but also the most retarded change in the whole 1.0.3 patch. Yes, Im angry about this one, and whoever had that idea can go get a hearty "Screw you!" by yours truly. How do you even mess up so bad?
For the uninformed, Fair got a major damage nerf, going from 9.5% to 5%. WHY? This ruins our primary spacing tool in terms of threat, because that large disjointed hitbox that does 5% kinda feels weak. Oh, and Fair -> Fair now does a total of 10%. Why.
Speaking of Fair combos...




























Yeah. If I had a document describing all the Fair followups I would have to edit it to be as blank as this paragraph. In an attempt to balance out the damage nerf nuke, the BKB of Fair got increased from 35 to 40. 5. Friggin. Points. Spoiler alert: That does not work. While the lower damage resulting in lower KB may sound awesome for combos, the hitstun sadly was not adjusted, which means that Fair now does very little of that. As a result, at lower percents Fair does so little KB that you have to actively stop your momentum in order to maximize your chances at a followup due to the KB nerf at lower percents, and the hitstun is now so miniscule that most followups are simply not true anymore. The biggest offender here is Fair to Dair, which is entirely gone as a true combo. Still works, but requires a hard momentum pull back and isnt even true. This is a change that is objectively for the worse and NEEDS to be reversed ASAP. Whoever is in charge of Chibis balancing, please undo this. This is a major nerf for our character and a disgrace to what otherwise was an amazing patch for our little guy. If anything about Fair deserves a nerf, it would be its hitbox. Forward Air is seriously absurdly large, so if some of that was cut I honestly wouldnt mind. Just dont make it another USmash situation, and PLEASE give Chibi his Fair back. He needs it.


Luckily Bair is where my rants are over again. Damage got nerfed (15% -> 12%, which is a bit below 0.9b Bair but idc), but hoo boy all the other changes. Lower angle (50° -> 40°) and most importantly, a major boost in raw knockback (15 -> 42 Base, 90 -> 105 Growth). This is amazing, giving Chibi his much neccessary kill move back and generally Bair is much more threatening now. Great change. The only downside of this is that landing Bair now results in more freeze frames, which kind of feels like the game is stuttering for a few frames there. Strife was correct about 20CR all along it seems :chibirobo: No, seriously, thats how he predicted it.


Up Air went from the Plug of Disappointment to the Plug of Justice, shoutouts to Refurin here by the way. Sweetspot now deals 12% instead of 11%, the move sends at a much better angle too (60° -> 40) and just like Bair the KB was buffed quite a bit, albeit a bit less notably (50 -> 54 Base, 95 -> 110 Growth). This still helps a ton and from what I have seen so far, Uair is finally a kill move again. Now we just need to fix Fair so we have a reliable setup into it and we good (literally) :chibirobo:


Chibi Blaster also got a major buff, and tbh I dont really understand the full extent of this. The hitstun of the move was increased from 30% to 70%. If this means what I think it does, Blaster is now officially broken.


One thing that wasnt put on the changelog, but DTilt seems to have gotten a nerf in terms of ending lag, and its launch angle also feels more horizontal and generally worse now. Might be placebo though.



tl;dr~ 1.0.3 is a great patch for our little robot friend. Lotsa buffs across the board, which most notably buff his KO power at the cost of some damage output. The biggest offender thus fair is obviously Fair, and Nair2 also stings. Other than that I dont have much to say - our biggest issue got removed and our already really good projectile sounds borderline busted now. Nice :chibirobo:


On a sidenote, is there any chance that a dev would possibly join the Chibicord for more effective means of discussing our character? The Tails discord currently has two devs in it, which makes it super easy to communicate between players and developers to help and make the character better in a healthy way overall. The two devs in question generally being very open and communicative about stuff also helps a ton in that regard of course and almost makes it feel like a community project at times if Tails players can actively shape the future of their character, and I have that weird idea where every character server has at least one dev in it to maximize balancing stuff as long as it is handled properly. I can see this going off the rails super easily, but the single sample size I currently have shows that it can work out really nicely. Do it for Chibi, you cant possibly say no to this face of his :chibirobo:

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Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:24 am
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UAir is too good for this game

Chibi is top 10 probably :chibirobo:

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Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:24 am
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I'd trade Old FAir back and remove the Blaster Buff, I think people would agree with this

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Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:51 am
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Nah.

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Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:51 pm
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As much as I hate 5% Fair, nah. Blaster is incredibly good right now, and I kinda wanna keep it that way :chibirobo:

And I have to admit that I give 1.0.3 Fair not enough credit. While the move lost its use as a low % combo tool, it functions much better now at above mid percents, which is something our character desperately needed. Besides, getting Fair -> Uair at kill percents because of s*** DI is amazing, Fair -> Dair is actually somewhat of a thing contrary to my initial thoughts but now connects at percentages where Dair actually kills. I would love to see a damage buff because 5% spoon makes my heart bleed, but I actually dont want 10% Fair anymore.

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Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:04 am
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So... why :chibirobo: don't have a Zair/tether?

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Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:22 pm
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a tether would make sense...considering its grab is pretty much a giant power cord

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Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:35 pm
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The Dark Chibi Knight wrote:
I would love to see a damage buff because 5% spoon makes my heart bleed, but I actually dont want 10% Fair anymore.

I'd say 8% is a good number

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Pochiman wrote:
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Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:39 pm
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Chibi having a Zair has been requested since the first day of 0.9b actually. But as you noticed, that didnt really go anywhere :chibirobo: I would love to see a Zair though. Doesnt even have to be as ridiculous as Samus's Zair, just a quick poke with decent range would be nice.

By the way, am I the only one that wants USmash to be resprited to make it use the 0.9b Uair tweezers instead of a standart boring plug chuck? It would make sense, given the massive KB buff it recently got and tweezers being infamously strong, ya know :chibirobo: Oh, and that also would be a great way to give the move actual hitboxes.

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Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:47 am
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The Dark Chibi Knight wrote:
By the way, am I the only one that wants USmash to be resprited to make it use the 0.9b Uair tweezers instead of a standart boring plug chuck? It would make sense, given the massive KB buff it recently got and tweezers being infamously strong, ya know :chibirobo: Oh, and that also would be a great way to give the move actual hitboxes.

+1, I still really miss those tweezers

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Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:07 pm
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tweezer USmash when


Consider this a desperate attempt at breathing life back into this thread while Im preparing a giant info dump from the Chibicord. Most discussion of the character happens over there now, and as you can prolly tell because no post by me in months, we dont always put our findings on here.


Randomly had the idea of experimenting with Reverse Bair as a combo tool recently, and this is the result: https://i.gyazo.com/d522c2c08af93a6e00e7f9cff524fcaa.mp4


Now before you slam your keyboard against the next wall or literally drop your phone because of this sheer insanity, hear me out. This is Chibi's "Awesome But Impractical" tool, to the point where you should not really get this in an actual match.

Bair -> Uair only works on a select few characters, and a good chunk of them dont even die to the confirm. The general rule of thumb is that you require a tall opponent with below average weight and somewhat above average fall speed though. So far I got it to work on Marth, Sheik and Isaac. Zelda/Samus are too floaty, Kirby/Puff etc. are way too small, heavies just dont die at all unless they DI horizontally. ZSS may also work, but thats still up for testing.

The execution window for this is extremely tight, with only a few frames of leniency. You also need to hold down during the apex of the jump while Bairing to avoid grabbing the ledge and time the DJ Uair just right. For reference, on Sheik this is a kill confirm from 33-37% in training mode (numbers will differ in a real match) - at 32% it does not kill, and at 38% the Uair wont reach anymore. Numbers for Isaac are 37 - 41%, but above 39% you need perfect execution to land the Uair. Additionally, the entire setup is nuked by proper DI of course, and, ya know, not getting hit by the most telegraphed Bair ever :chibirobo: Chibi is slow, Bair is slow, just stay away from the ledge and youre good.

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Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:37 am
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